[Sabato Kuroi]

Do they combine?

If they do, can you provide an example?(rolls needed etc)

Thanks in advance

[Shaidar]

WALL RUNNING
Cost: 0.5 PP
Activation: Simple Action
You can run up sheer walls or other vertical surfaces a limited distance. Make a Running + Strength [Magic] Test, with hits indicating the number of meters you may climb up in an action phase. If you want to run up longer distances, you’ll need steps, ledges, or somewhere you can stop and then use this power again. If you want to run across a vertical surface instead of up it, you can do so by combining this power with a Sprint action (p. 162). At the end of your movement, you fall off the wall, whether you made it as far as you wanted or not.

HANG TIME
COST: 0.25 PP PER LEVEL
ACTIVATION: SEE DESCRIPTION
Adepts with this power receive two benefits. First, for each level of this power, the adept gains a +1 dice pool bonus for all Climbing Tests. Second, the adept can temporarily adhere to surfaces, such as walls. For each level of this power, the adept can attach himself to a surface and hang out for approximately five minutes, provided he remains motionless and keeps physical contact with the surface in question with hands, feet, knees, or elbows. The adept must spend a Simple Action to bond his magical energy with the surface; normal clothing such as gloves or boots does not interfere with this power, but the use of heavy armor (armor with a Rating of 13 or higher) will. Moving the attached body parts on the surface they’re adhering to, such as a moving vehicle, breaks the bond, making the adept fall off.

I'd say they don't stack, as in use simultaneously.  But Hang Time will provide you with "somewhere where you can stop" that Wall Running requires for repeated use provided that you remain motionless while you use Hang Time.

Effectively with the two powers you become Spider-Man.

[adzling]

I have both powers on my toon and I GM and we don't let them stack.

The key point is that Hang Time does not allow you to move any body part, once stuck you are stuck.
If you unstick yourself you fall off.
You cant unstick just one hand or foot, which is what would be needed to use it as you note.

Here are the relevant sections on Hang Time:
" provided he remains motionless and keeps physical contact with the surface in question with hands, feet, knees, or elbows. The adept must spend a Simple Action to bond his magical energy with the surface;"

So you must STOP to stick on.
When wall running you can not stop or you fall off.

"Moving the attached body parts on the surface they’re adhering to, such as a moving vehicle, breaks the bond, making the adept fall off."

This implies you cannot move any of the attached body parts or you fall off.
So if you remove you feet to try and start running you'll fall off.
And you can't wall walk, the power is called wall running not walking.

So yeah, a careful reading precludes what you hope to use it for.
Which is sad 'cause I wish it were that way!

hehe

Now if you had magnetic boots on a metal wall you would have something!

[Novocrane]

I'd go with it, for the same points Shaidar highlighted. Wall Running requires somewhere you can stop. Hang Time allows you to stop almost anywhere.

When you aren't using one power, you're using the other - thus, no point at which you fall off.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

I would think it works that way as well. This could allow some awesome spiderman type moments, plus great for b&e experts or snipers.

[Sabato Kuroi]

I have both powers on my toon and I GM and we don't let them stack.

The key point is that Hang Time does not allow you to move any body part, once stuck you are stuck.
If you unstick yourself you fall off.
You cant unstick just one hand or foot, which is what would be needed to use it as you note.

Here are the relevant sections on Hang Time:
" provided he remains motionless and keeps physical contact with the surface in question with hands, feet, knees, or elbows. The adept must spend a Simple Action to bond his magical energy with the surface;"

So you must STOP to stick on.
When wall running you can not stop or you fall off.

"Moving the attached body parts on the surface they’re adhering to, such as a moving vehicle, breaks the bond, making the adept fall off."

This implies you cannot move any of the attached body parts or you fall off.
So if you remove you feet to try and start running you'll fall off.
And you can't wall walk, the power is called wall running not walking.

So yeah, a careful reading precludes what you hope to use it for.
Which is sad 'cause I wish it were that way!

hehe

Now if you had magnetic boots on a metal wall you would have something!

you need one simple action to start wall running, but running requires no action.At the end of your movement you can use a simple action to attach yourself to the surface.So I dont know about starting wall running after you ve used hang time.But I certainly believe you can use hang time at the end of wall running because you do have the number of actions required

[adzling]

Nope you're all wrong, sorry if that upsets you.

Read Hang time carefully as I noted.

To perform hang time you must be stopped, you cant be moving.

You can't stop wall running or you fall off (momentum and all).

So no, you can't run, stop miraculously ignoring the rules of gravity, then use hang time.
You must be fully stopped first before you can use Hang Time, so it stands to reason you can't use Hang Time to stop yourself.
Otherwise it could be use to arrest your falls, which it cannot.

[Sabato Kuroi]

Nope you're all wrong, sorry if that upsets you.

Read Hang time carefully as I noted.

To perform hang time you must be stopped, you cant be moving.

You can't stop wall running or you fall off (momentum and all).

So no, you can't run, stop miraculously ignoring the rules of gravity, then use hang time.
You must be fully stopped first before you can use Hang Time, so it stands to reason you can't use Hang Time to stop yourself.

Otherwise it could be use to arrest your falls, which it cannot.

firsf of all, gaming rules don't upset me, even if I'm wrong about them.
Secondly, even if english is not my native language, I can understand that it is not logical to demand from an elbow to be motionless in order to initiate hang time since in order to attach your elbow to the surface you must move it first.So at the end of your run, you attach one part of your body to the surface, use hang time and stop moving.


Hang time forbids you to move after you ve activated it

[adzling]

sorry about my blanket statement, folks often take offense when challenged it seems.

Kabuto you must STOP MOVING before you use Hang Time.
You cannot be running and use Hang Time.

If you stop Wall Running you fall off due to gravity and momentum.

Hang Time, as it is worded, very clearly does not allow you to stop yourself from falling.

It specifically says you must be completely motionless with hands and or feet in contact with the surface you want to stick to.

Running is not stopped.
Falling is not stopped.
Hence Hang Time will not work.

You also cannot use Hang Time like spiderman to climb walls.
Because as soon as you remove one hand/ foot to move it you would fall.

Hang Time provides a small bonus to climbing because you can stop and rest whenever you like without any chance of falling, no rope needed!

does that help?

[Sabato Kuroi]

Attaching implies movement.So in order to attach you must move one body part in order to touch the surface.The rule
never mentions being motionless in order to activate the power.It says you must be motionless in order to remain attached to the surface.

I m sorry but I dont think the rule is as clear as you think it is
I dont want to drag you into a long debate.Maybe my poor english is to blame

[adzling]

You must take a simple action and concentrate to stick.

If your hands and feet are moving they cannot stick, they must stay in contact with the surface and not be moving, otherwise the bond is broken (the entire bond, not just the one moving hand or foot).

So you cannot use it to free-climb walls without fear of falling, you cannot use it to stop your fall and you cannot use it stop your running like a carrier fighter uses a landing hook.

If your interpretation was correct than it would not be called "Hang Time" and it would not provide a small bonus to climbing.
Instead it would be called "Spider Climb" and it would allow you to free-climb any surface without fear of falling.

You do not have to agree with me, but then you are house-ruling something that is clearly not permitted.

FYI your English is very good, way better than my Japanese, Korean, Chinese or whatever your mother tongue is!

[UnLimiTeD]

It says you can't move while attached, it doesn't say you can't move to attach. Just one bodypart needing to be still relative to [object].
How would you define stop? If I jump, there's a very short moment at the peak where I'm not falling, if I put my hand on a car, it rests there the moment I stop giving movement impulses.
Attaching is a simple action, which means, taking a non-combat adept with ~2 Ini passes, that it logically has to happen in under 1 second.
You can easily attach a hand to a surface by just grabbing slightly below your max, for example if running up the wall (without adept powers, just oldfashioned momentum), by the time you lose grip on the wall with your feet, put your hands on the wall, then the momentum carries you slightly upwards still, but by the time you fall your magical energy should have connected your hands to said wall and you will stick.
As you're not actually moving your hands on the wall, no problem, the arms attached to that hand don't count. You won't be able to continue upwards at a later date on a plain wall, however.
It also nowhere says that you have to attach a lot of bodyparts, just one will do; there's a clear or there.

Also, hang time provides absolutely no bonus to climbing as climbing is a repeated complex action and not an extended test; per RAW, you never actually tire.

[Sabato Kuroi]

For how long must the hand be motionless before the power can be activated?
Scientifically, complete stillness is impossible.So, the only requirement is your body part to be in touch with the surface while having a simple action to spare(in order to activate the power)
Anything different is not in sync with the rules of movement (as far as shadowrun goes)

So, if I have a  simple action to spare at the end of my movement,while my body part is in touch with the surface I can activate hang time.At the last step of running there is a brief moment when your foot is completely attached to a surface.And you have a Simple action to spare since movement in shadowrun doesn't require a specific action.
Yes, I understand I may be wrong, but even so, the rule is far from being clear.

[adzling]

The power could do with some clarification, agreed.

However the nut of it is that you DO get a small climbing bonus (+1 per level of hang time) but it does not make you immune to climbing tests or falling off while climbing.

Ergo it IS NOT something akin to Spider Climb where you can use it to climb without any skill or equipment.

It also cannot be used to arrest a fall, which is basically what you are trying to do when you stop your Wall Running and attempt to Hang (albeit a rather unconventional fall arrest).

This will not work as the power specifically says "provided he remains motionless".
You must get into position, put your hand/s and or foot or feet and or elbow or elbows in contact with a surface and hold them there then concentrate to activate the power.

Again, I requote:
"the adept can attach himself to a surface and hang out for approximately five minutes, provided he remains motionless and keeps physical contact with the surface in question with hands, feet, knees, or elbows."

It's clear the power is not meant to provide Spider-like climbing ability OR fall arresting wall clinging,

It's just a minor 0.25pp power that can help you climb or once there stick in position for a while.

[Herr Brackhaus]

I'd allow it, you could even do so in a single action phase.
Simple Action: Wall Running (Running + Strength [Magic])
Free Action: Run
Simple Action: Hang Time

Wall Running could be used to climb [hits] meters, and Hang Time could be used to attach at any point up to and including the maximum. Just like with movement, you don't have to move the full distance possible, but any declared movement that is unused is lost.

That's how I see it anyway. Once Hang Time is spent you'd fall off the wall. If you tried to move you'd fall off the wall. It's not like this combination dramatically unbalances anything given that Wall Running still requires a decent Strength score to be useful, and you'd have to spend .5 PP on the powers, so I don't see a reason to limit it. Rule of Cool trumps RAW as far as I'm concerned.