[Highroller86]

Okay... *sigh* I have this player in my party...
He says that there are some rules that he has seen on reddit...
Those rules say that with a certain strength value,
you could use a assault rifle with only one arm...
If you are a troll maybe? (No, not THAT kind of troll, i mean the meta-human troll).
Thing is... I know, as GM i have the last word, but i really don't want to use that
when i can find any rules that clearly state that this is not a thing.
(Or if there are simply no rules at all)

So please... Help me. Are there any rules for one handed assault rifles in any SR5 book
that i might have not seen yet?

[Marcus Gideon]

Okay... *sigh* I have this player in my party...
He says that there are some rules that he has seen on reddit...

Ah yes, I see the problem.

Unless someone can present you with page number and quotation of the rule, assume it's somebody's interpretation or house rule. Specifically regarding wielding weapons one or two handed, there isn't actually a rule in the book. It's basically left up to common sense (which some people lack). For what it's worth, the term "two-handed" only occurs twice in the entire Core rulebook (Ctrl F is your friend) and it's in the fluff text describing the Combat Axe and the Katana specifically. So if someone really wants to press the issue, there isn't a page quote one way or the other.

If the player really wants to wield an assault rifle one handed, you could let them do so. But one thing I would consider is denying them their Strength based Recoil Compensation. Rifles are clearly meant to be wielded with both hands, as well as butted against the shoulder for extra support. If you're trying to wave it around gangsta' style, you're basically doing everything wrong. So you may be able to perform some impressive Suppressing Fire, but you're never going to hit anything accurately. Not unless you use it the right way.

[Faust]

I have looked into this as well, because of the Katana fluff, and there is no rule I found in 5e. Since Reddit is not an official source(sorry). I would say no, to a point. Some assault rifles you can pull it off IRL (i'm ex military, we have fun sometimes) others not so much. If it's a one time thing for effect sure just give him -2 on his attack with no recoil or half recoil. But if it's all the time thing i personally wouldn't allow it.if it becomes an issue hand him an AK47 and tell him to hit a can shooting 1 handed.

[odd]

I think this is the thread he's talking about and the rules mentioned are for 4E, not 5E.

[Whiskeyjack]

As long as he's not trying to get mechanical bonuses from dual-wielding, I don't know why it matters.

If he thinks it's cool and it's not providing a mechanical advantage, then just let him be cool.

[Rooks]

Institute double recoil penalties for one handed firing

[Novocrane]

Recoil is a good idea, but I'd go with double uncompensated recoil.

[MijRai]

I'd suggest doing normal recoil...  But don't allow any form of recoil compensation that requires carrying it properly.  That applies to Gas-Vents too, because now the rifle will bounce more without the proper support.  I'd also apply a size/balance penalty; merely holding out an awkward, 8.8 pound rifle with one hand SUCKS, much less shooting it.  Fire that assault-rifle one-handed all you want, taking a -4 to -8 penalty because you can't properly aim it and your hands are shaking from carrying it that way should do the trick.

If you wanted to be really evil, certain firearms with gas-assisted operation have a tendency to jam if not braced properly; it messes with the cycling when the entire gun moves.  Only example of that I've fired was a Beretta shotgun, but it could happen elsewhere.  Glitches when you're shooting one-handed have much more opportunity to be fun. 

[Herr Brackhaus]

SR4's Arsenal handled this pretty straight forward:

Large firearms (anything rifle-sized and larger) are typically used with two hands. A character wielding a large firearm with only one hand will suffer a –2 dice pool modifier to ranged attacks (–1 for trolls).

It would be pretty easy to reuse this rule, or simply only allow half recoil from Strength.

[Highroller86]

So why he wanted to do the whole thing is, because he wanted his troll to be like a tank of some sort...
Riot shield in one hand, assault rifle in the other. And yes... I DID tell him "Dude, just take like... a machine pistol or smg."
But for some reason he didn't like the smaller weapons... He pictured his troll with a strength of 12 to be well capable to use
larger weapons one-handed.

Meh...

Well, i told him what you guys think and he finally gave up that idea.
Now he wants to roll with a MMG on a fraggin gyro mount.
Maybe he could put some plates on the sides of his MMG?
Like this:
http://media.modellbau-koenig.de/pictures/products/lre35050.jpg
Or maybe more like this:
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/be/Tiny_tots.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110926202543

(Well, with a MMG instead of a fatman of course...)

His character has some armorer skills (rating 4), so he could build this one himself maybe?
What do you say? Could i give him like... +2 armor but also the -1 for using a shield?

I am not against his idea in general, because this whole thing would limit him as well...
Say, the team is going for a sneaky approach... Right? Huge ass troll with gyro mount and machine gun
would probably make some noise... Especially, since his character has not a single point in sneaking.
He would end up waiting in the back of the van like Bruce Banner in marvels avengers 2 "Dr. Banner? We have a code green!"

[Whiskeyjack]

Well if he wants to be able to carry a shield in the other hand, that IS to create a mechanical benefit (being able to use the gun and a shield). So yeah, feel free to say no.

Now, from what you're saying, it sounds like this player wants to be pretty pink mohawk, and if that's not the kind of game you or the other players are interested in, you're absolutely allowed to say you don't want that in your game.

[Jack_Spade]

Why does the STR 12 Troll even bother with guns? He'll do more damage throwing the bullets at the targets...

[Marcus Gideon]

So why he wanted to do the whole thing is, because he wanted his troll to be like a tank of some sort...
Riot shield in one hand, assault rifle in the other. And yes... I DID tell him "Dude, just take like... a machine pistol or smg."
But for some reason he didn't like the smaller weapons... He pictured his troll with a strength of 12 to be well capable to use
larger weapons one-handed.

Meh...

Well, i told him what you guys think and he finally gave up that idea.
Now he wants to roll with a MMG on a fraggin gyro mount.
Maybe he could put some plates on the sides of his MMG?
Like this:

What you're looking at there, is an Browning M2 (Ma Deuce) Machine Gun. This weapon is typically seen mounted to the top of a combat Humvee rolling around in a desert somewhere.



The gun itself weighs 38 kg (~85 lbs). With the mounting hardware it comes in closer to 58 kg (~130 lbs). Then you add in another 35 lbs (16 kg) for that little 100 round ammo can pictured next to it. I say "little can" b/c the average rate of fire is about 850 rounds per minute. Even in game terms, you will get 5 rounds of Suppressing Fire (15 seconds of action) before reloading.

So you're looking at 165 lbs between the gun, mount, and ammo. That's not accounting for the armor plates pictured. Not entirely sure how much those plates would weigh, but I'd guesstimate about 100 lbs is a safe number to throw out. So you're looking at toting around 265 lbs (120 kg) worth of extra stuff. Core pg 152 says you can carry Strength x 10 kg worth of gear. Even if the weapon is mounted to a Gyro Mount, that doesn't negate the weight. So your Strength 12 Troll can barely carry this gun, and nothing else. Someone tosses him a Snickers bar, his legs will break. Which means he won't be wearing any armor either.

When you say the character wants to be a Tank, you're serious. They are anticipating carrying a vehicle mounted weapon, and vehicle scale armor, down the sidewalk.

You may want to point out that they are playing a humanoid Troll. They aren't playing a Cave Troll from the Lord of the Rings.

[Rooks]

Or MCT GUN TURRET w/ Walker "Secondary propulsion"

[MijRai]

Uh, that ain't a light or medium machine gun.  That is a .50 caliber machine gun, way into the Heavy category.  You can tell it wasn't designed to be fired unmounted because there is no stock. 

An M240 (a medium machine gun) fires 7.62x51mm and weighs about 10-15 kilos.  An M60 weighs about the same, with the same ammunition.  While these traditionally are fired with a bipod or tripod, it is completely possible to use them while standing and moving (that's a part of the design).  The gyro-mount adds perhaps 10 kilos to that, and makes it much easier to fire from the standing position.  Let's say 10 kilos for the shield (the first weight I saw was 17 pounds, but we're rounding up for ease).  400 rounds is 10 kilos as well. 

45 out of 120 kilograms to pack this weapon with enough ammo to fire on Suppressing for 20 full rounds with proper support and a ballistic shield on the front.  I'd still apply some penalties (a -2 most likely) because there's a big, honking shield on the front of your gun that would impede vision, but much more plausible than akimbo shield and assault rifle.  As far as armor for a troll goes, we're talking close to 30-40 kilos for mil-spec along with extraneous gear.  Throw in another 200 rounds and you've got 90 kilos of equipment/weapons, leaving another 30 for picking up other things.  This is by no means impossible. 

As far as that Fat-Man 'shield' goes, that wasn't armor.  That's the sights.