[ScytheKnight]

Sounds good... I might go a step further and say this cycle can be done a number of times equal to the rank of Hang Time.

So at rank one you can push off once, rest , then push off again. After that you need a proper ledge to rest.

At rank two you can push off twice, rest, push off twice, rest, push off twice. Then you'll need a proper ledge to rest on.

I think you can see the cycle from here. This seems to me a good way of rewarding solid investment, but preventing silly abuse of scaling skyscrapers with almost no investment.

[adzling]

agreed, i likey!

[Lucean]

I agree that one should have the opportunity to push off oneself from some solid substance in order to use Wall Running. This could would give GMs the opportunity in both directions:
- completely disallowing the use of Wall Running while "hanging on"
- implement some leeway like Scytheknight presented

[Shaidar]

yeah checkout my math above wyrm.

hey nice post on floor heights Jim!

the impressive/ unbalancing thing is you get to run up anywhere from 10 to 20 meters in 3 seconds with no chance of falling at all....

So a world class sprinter with these powers could run to the top of the empire state building's antenna (the tippy top!) in about a minute (empire state building = 443 meters)

Reference: the elevators travel at 1000 feet per minute and take @1.5 minutes to get to the top....

At that speed you just ran outside the building all the way to the top faster than the elevators without any chance of falling....and that includes stopping for hang-time to give you the "step".

to me that IS a bit whacko for 0.75pp (0.5 for wall running + 0.25pp for one level of hang time).

Actually, Adzling a character isn't going to get that kind of distance because the user isn't Sprinting up the building they can only traverse a number of meters equal to the hits scored on a Running + Strength [Magic] Test.

[Lucean]

Shaidar, you seem to miss that he can have up to 4 initiative passes. Even when he gets only 3 hits on his Running+STR tests, it will be 9 meters for three passes or 12 meters for four passes, so to take the example of the Empire State Building, he'd need 150 seconds to run up on the outside. And averaging 3 passes should be easily possible, while only assuming 3 hits per test is actually really low.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Actually, if you're going to assume some minimal amount of hits, look at how many can be bought, and stick with that.  3 hits = 12 dice - which is respectable for a non-combat skill, which generally isn't going to have any added dice easily available.

Of course, if you're presuming 4 initiative passes, it requires a 31 or more initiative - which you really have to concentrate on to get.  On the other hand, four is by no means the most you can get.  Presuming average enhanced initiative and average (not bought) hits, 8 x 8 = 64m/3s, or the Empire State Building's 443m - and since we're talking the Empire State Building, we really don't need to worry about ledges and handholds and stuff, the thing is chock full of them - in just under 7 seconds.  Which is, granted, faster than the currently-fastest high-speed elevator (1200m/min) ... though that one's speed is deliberately restrained.  It has to carry passengers, after all.

[Novocrane]

Is there a reason to get hung up on nerfing Hang Time (or how far you can get with WR + HT / WR + ledges combo), when gecko tape has questionably been considered a valid replacement?

[ScytheKnight]

Is there a reason to get hung up on nerfing Hang Time (or how far you can get with WR + HT / WR + ledges combo), when gecko tape has questionably been considered a valid replacement?

Because gecko grips you can still easily fall off... using these adept powers it's conceivable to never be in danger of falling off.

[Novocrane]

I'd consider that worth +0.25PP, over spending 250¥ for almost the same result.

[adzling]

Well if you think it's cool to be able to run up the side of a sheer high rise building faster than the elevator does for only 0.25pp then nothing stopping you doing that in your game.

That's not the type of game I would like to play in but that's cool, it's your game.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Well, you were the one who suggested the Empire State Building.  The ESB has plenty of regular sort of hand-holds for someone even without Hang Time to get a grip upon.  Also, I believe I was the one who suggested that it'd take a standard climbing test to find a grip, instead of just auto-sticking ... ?

[adzling]

yeah i wasn't taken at YOU wyrm :p

regardless yeah let's pick a different skyscraper that is smoother and offers less grip as our example ;-)

Without hang time in the equation wall running needs a ledge you can stop on, not just a tiny grip to grab onto.
So missing said ledge yeah a climbing test to grab onto a small grip point makes total sense.

I would also include a time delay as you have to grab grip point, stop, adjust, run again etc.

and I wouldn't allow you to exceed your agility x 4 run rate with wall running (possible with a medium or lower agility character who has good wall running and alot of actions phases per combat turn).

[Herr Brackhaus]

I'm honestly trying to picture a person running up the side of a wall, pausing to use hang time by attaching one or more limbs to the structure, and then taking off at a run again, and I just don't see it. If there was a ledge or something that would allow you to halt entirely then I could see this being possible, sort of like magic parkour, but with just using hang time to establish a hold and then continue on running? Nope, wouldn't fly at my table.

Wall Running and Hang Time to run up the side of a wall and hang on to the ceiling, though, would be entirely plausible.

[ScytheKnight]

I'm honestly trying to picture a person running up the side of a wall, pausing to use hang time by attaching one or more limbs to the structure, and then taking off at a run again, and I just don't see it. If there was a ledge or something that would allow you to halt entirely then I could see this being possible, sort of like magic parkour, but with just using hang time to establish a hold and then continue on running? Nope, wouldn't fly at my table.

Wall Running and Hang Time to run up the side of a wall and hang on to the ceiling, though, would be entirely plausible.

That's fine... although theoretically an adept could hang time themselves in a runners starting block position. But in the end we all play different games with different players with different expectations. As frustrating as some of the lack of clarity in the rules can be, it does allow some wriggle room to tailor the experience to different tables.

[Namikaze]

I'm honestly trying to picture a person running up the side of a wall, pausing to use hang time by attaching one or more limbs to the structure, and then taking off at a run again, and I just don't see it. If there was a ledge or something that would allow you to halt entirely then I could see this being possible, sort of like magic parkour, but with just using hang time to establish a hold and then continue on running? Nope, wouldn't fly at my table.

Wall Running and Hang Time to run up the side of a wall and hang on to the ceiling, though, would be entirely plausible.

The way I was seeing it, one would use wall running to get up the side of the building, use hang time to chill there for a moment, then jump to another area and use wall running there, then hang time, etc.  Like in Ninja Gaiden.  Going up the side of a perfectly smooth surface though starts to stretch the bounds of reasonable.  Still...  magic?