[All4BigGuns]

For either the B or C magic priority, are the benefits gained for being an Aspected Sorcerer worth what they give up as a Full Mage at the same priority?  Is it even close?  I don't think so and I don't think you've addressed that point yet.

For Human and Elf, no, but for Ork and Troll casters, most assuredly.

A: Troll
B: Attributes
C: Skills
D: Aspected Magician
E: Resources

Or

A: Attributes
B: Aspected Magician
C: Ork
D: Skills
E: Resources


Either may not be a munchkin "optimized" build, but it could be functional. Just not my cup of tea because I personally want both casting and conjuring (don't really give a frag about enchanting).

[Shinobi Killfist]

A sorcerer or alchemist with synergistic skills and spells/preparations can be more powerful than a conjurer when spirit abilities are in play.

I disagree with that entirely.  A sorcerer with synergistic spells might be more powerful in the right situation than a conjurer but there will be just as many if not more situations where the conjurer will be more powerful .

You're mistaken here.  A sorcerer or enchanter with synergistic skills gets to be REALLY powerful in a certain set of situations without having to sacrifice the huge versatility that is inherent to the skillset.  Conjurers get the versatility, but not the power.

Well I believe you are mistaken because a aspected conjurer can be hugely powerful in the right situations, they IMO have more power than the sorcerer overall.  The sorcerer has potentially more versatility but it is well beyond the free spells given to the various full mage options.  The conjurer will most likely grow in power faster as well, though their versatility wont grow much at all(allies and great forms are the limit of versatility growth I think) The sorcerer might grow in power at the same pace if they don't expand their versatility. Long term there will come a point where it is too cost prohibitive to grow in power any more so the sorcerer will be in a good position there, but that is hundreds of karma in. 

[ZeConster]

not to mention the fact that you can't break the skill group until Step Seven, so depending on your Skills Priority choice, the skill group bit may actually end up restricting you.

Order of operations in chargen isn't that strict. You can break the skill group whenever you want. Same principle as Aptitude and Exceptional Attribute.

Except the rules specifically state that skill groups cannot be broken up during Step Five:

skill groups cannot be broken up in this step, so individual skill points cannot raise the ratings of skills purchased as a group

And I don't recall anyone saying you can do Step Seven before completing all the other Steps (if so, people would be buying skills at Rating 1 for 2 Karma each and then raising them to 6 for 5 skill points each).

[Crunch]

Hmm. That's an interesting wrinkle. I had assumed that they came under the general rule. Thanks for catching that.

[FasterN8]

For either the B or C magic priority, are the benefits gained for being an Aspected Sorcerer worth what they give up as a Full Mage at the same priority?  Is it even close?  I don't think so and I don't think you've addressed that point yet.

For Human and Elf, no, but for Ork and Troll casters, most assuredly.
A: Troll
B: Attributes
C: Skills
D: Aspected Magician
E: Resources

Or
A: Attributes
B: Aspected Magician
C: Ork
D: Skills
E: Resources

Either may not be a munchkin "optimized" build, but it could be functional. Just not my cup of tea because I personally want both casting and conjuring (don't really give a frag about enchanting).

Well Full Mage is not a choice at Priority at D so that's an apples to oranges comparison.  We can discuss that, but it's not what I asked.  So I suppose we'll consider your very uncommon choice of an Ork caster. 

With Magic Priority B and no special ability points, he's got an Edge of 1 and the Magic attribute listed.  And his racial limit for both Logic and Charisma is 5, so both traditions are an equally poor choice for him.  Flip a coin.

If he went Full Mage B, he'd have a Magic of 4, 7 spells and Sorcery and Counterspelling at rank 4 before spending skill points.
If he went Sorcerer B he'd have Magic 5, no spells and the Sorcery Group at 4 before spending skill points.

Both have great drain stats and spend skill points similarly maxing Spellcasting and Counterspelling, except the Mage throws a few points into Conjuring and Binding because he can (lets say a 3 in each).  They not only let him summon, but also use bound spirits to aid his spellcasting.  The sorcerer gets to spend some points on non-magic stuff.  The Mage takes no Enchanting skills because he thinks it's dumb.  The Sorcerer agrees.

Then we get to Karma.  We'll assume neither takes negative qualities.  The Sorcerer still doesn't have any spells so he drops 25 karma on 5 spells (or 4 and a mentor spirit) while the Mage gets to spend his points on Quick Healer, Mentor Spirit, Aptitude Spellcasting so he can have a 7 .  Then he drops 2 more karma on a new skill to make up for the extra point he put in Spellcasting and he has 1 karma left over.

So lets compare:

 - Things better for the Mage
The Mage can astrally project
The Mage can conjure spirits but not great, so probably only force 3 or 4
 - The Mage has access to conjured spirit powers at force 4
 - The Mage can use bound spirits to aid spellcasting +3 dice
 - The Mage can use bound spirits to sustain his spells - 3 turns
The Mage has 7 Spells and a Mentor Spirit vs 5 and no mentor (or 4 + MS)
The Mage's heal spells and first aid roll with +2 dice and he also rolls 2 extra dice when healing stun or physical damage
The Mage's Spells are harder to notice (Spellcasting-force = threshold to notice)

I broke out the conjuring stuff because I don't expect force 3 or 4 spirits to fight, but their powers could still be useful and they  make a material difference for Full Mages spellcasting in tight situations.

Things equal for both:
Both casters roll the same dice pool when casting spells (Magic + Spellcasting)
Same or equal attributes
Same gear

Things better for the Aspected Mage (Sorcerer):
The AM can cast at 1 higher force (5) without risking Physical Drain.
The AM has Ritual Sorcery at rank 4
The AM has 6 more skill points to spread around on non-magical stuff.

These list may not be exhaustive  so feel free to add to them, but I think they highlight pretty well what has been traded for in choosing one archetype over another.  And really, it's not even a contest.  As written, full mages cast more and better than dedicated casters, and that's messed up.

[All4BigGuns]

It goes into what I was saying that the lower priority of Aspected makes it all right for use with the higher priority meta-types. As an Ork or Troll, go Aspected and you'll be just fine as either a caster or a conjuror. As a Human or Elf, go Full Magician.

As to what you said about Ork, well, you don't need a 6 in either Drain attribute.

[ZeConster]

It goes into what I was saying that the lower priority of Aspected makes it all right for use with the higher priority meta-types. As an Ork or Troll, go Aspected and you'll be just fine as either a caster or a conjuror. As a Human or Elf, go Full Magician.

Except the "lower priority" bit only really goes for Priority D, because 9 times out of 10, AM is an inferior choice compared to Magician of the same Priority level.

[Dracomax]

Also, keep in mind that While the focus of this is at character creation(and spells to spirits seem to favor spirits at creation) That there is a pretty significant benefit regular Magicians have over AM after character creation: They can learn skills in one of the three Magic skill groups they didn't already know. That's a huge benefit, as it means that even if they shoehorn themselves into the role of Sorcerer at creation, they can become a good sorcerer/conjurer at some point down the road. Versatility counts.

And if we are going to count Priority D for AMs, then we need to count that you can take Priority A for regular Magicians—if Magicians are better at priority B, then they should be massively so at priority A, which AM can't reach.