[Neongelion]

I don't like generalizing often, but it seems like runners rarely are the catalyst of regional-shaking or even world-shaking events and a lot of GMs I meet seem reluctant to run games that stray too far from canon. The CAS cannot be dragged into the current Amazonia-Aztlan War, Damien Knight won't be assassinated, the Redmond Barrens will remain as they are, the rumors of a dragon civil war will remain rumors, and the assassin of Eliot Eyes-of-Wyrm will never be revealed. Unless the canon says otherwise in the future.

Bear in mind I've only been introduced to Shadowrun a few months ago and have yet to run a game. I'm also still learning about the setting, its personalities, its history, and so on. I'm used to running D&D games, where the PCs are often heroes that can make or break communities, nations, or even the cosmos. On top of that, their actions are often recognized. In Shadowrun I understand it's more gritty and realistic, with the runners' actions rarely being traced back to them by the masses. It is Shadowrun, after all, and many runners are just average (so to speak) people with above average skills, scraping by in the mean streets rather than glistening D&D heroes.

I'm not quite sure how to word this question but I'll try my best not to sound confusing. How often do GMs break from canon? How rare is it for runners to be in missions that could very well drastically affect the actions and reactions of power players, whether in the Seattle underworld or the international stage?

[Lethe]

Did you miss this thread? Its right under yours...

[Mercer]

I tend not to break from canon as much as ignore it when necessary, but it's pretty rare that I run games where the runners are dealing with those types of world-level events.  (Indeed, it seems like the only time the stuff the runners do makes the news is when they screw up royally.)  I also don't run the big modules or metaplot games, although I do refer to them time to time as general info on the world.  Case in point: I don't think I have ever used an immortal elf in my game but the IE's are something that conspiracy theorists go on about endlessly in my game.

So in my experience it's pretty rare.  As to how often do GM's break from canon or runners affect the international stage-- that's probably going to be pretty specific to the group.  My group tends to prefer street-level runs, so they don't spend a lot of time working with celebrities and politicians.  Another group might prefer a more James Bondian approach to the game, and so will naturally be dealing with larger issues. 

One thing I've noticed is that SR tends to have a higher level of implied ownership than a lot of other games.  If you mention to other players that in your last D&D campaign you killed Tiamat, you may get one grognard who will harp about how it was too easy, but most people will just be like, "That's cool.  My last group killed Lloth."  If you say you killed Damien Knight or god-help-you Lofwyr, you will set off a fire of controversy or at least be openly mocked for having a too nice/mentally incompetent GM.  I'm not sure why that is but I think it has something to do with the world of SR being basically the real world with modifications.  Every D&D world works however the GM says it works, but the feeling seems to be that the SR world works pretty much like the real world and people have very specific ideas about how that should be.

This doesn't make those big world-shaking plots impossible to run, just more dangerous to bring up in online forums.  I think the default setting of D&D is to deal with world level events (especially beyond a certain level), where the default setting of SR deals with more localized events.  But that doesn't mean its the only thing you can do.

[Zilfer]

^I'm not sure that's quite true, We have about 16 people around my circle of friend's that play dnd and not one of them has ever done anything on the scale of killing a god. Though I did have them have a whole arc of collecting 5 magical items that would bring one back, but they resealed him before he could begin to obtain his power back. (that was hard enough as is... xD) Anyways my point was anyone you said that you killed Tiamat, we'd probably just roll our eyes and think "oh one of THOSE GM's". Which in our DnD vocabulary is called a Monte Haul DM, which when someone is first DMing or still pretty new to it I believe it's hard not to do this. You want your friends to have kick ass items and do incredible things, but it's not too realistic to most of us playing.

Considering i'm quite new as well and I scoure these forums almost daily or at least weekly for information trying to familiarize myself with the setting, I can say that i generally don't know cannon so it probably change things all the time, though i try to stay away from using Cannon Triple AAA's because I don't know too much about them. The closest i'm getting to messing with them is because the DM that introduced us to shadowrun (who's probably not going to DM anymore or play) trapped one of my characters in an old Ares Technology Archive room protected by a female dragon. (Well I want my character back so I'm going to eventually use the characters to break me out when I make my get away for a distraction, and hopefully I have some valuable paydata from this )

My friend however has taken the liberty of creating a custom robot built for military purposes between Ares Tech and Aztechnology. (it's some freakish robot with a person inside of it, half magic half machine) Anyways, pretty sure a joint commision there is changing cannon a bit.

[Neongelion]

Did you miss this thread? Its right under yours...

I did miss it, whoops  Though glad to know someone else was asking this question...

If you say you killed Damien Knight or god-help-you Lofwyr, you will set off a fire of controversy or at least be openly mocked for having a too nice/mentally incompetent GM.  I'm not sure why that is but I think it has something to do with the world of SR being basically the real world with modifications.  Every D&D world works however the GM says it works, but the feeling seems to be that the SR world works pretty much like the real world and people have very specific ideas about how that should be.

Your entire post was awesome, but I wanted to share something familiar here. Some time ago I said on this forum that a GM friend of mine had a party actually managing to kill Lofwyr. But this was long ago and I didn't know the specifics when asked just how they managed to pull off such a feat. I might have been looking into it too much, but I think there was an unspoken statement that they probably thought this GM had made things too easy for the group.

[All4BigGuns]

You can't forget those GMs (especially Forgotten Realms GMs) who have a tendency to have the named NPCs have all the power basically and come in constantly to "save the day" because the situation is too big for the PCs.

[Mirikon]

Hmm. Elminster vs. Ehran in a mage-duel...

[CanRay]

Hmm. Elminster vs. Ehran in a mage-duel...

Better idea, a Yo Mamma Contest!

[Zilfer]

Hmm. Elminster vs. Ehran in a mage-duel...

Better idea, a Yo Mamma Contest!

You would go there Canray..... but what does that leave for Fastjack?

[Mirikon]

Hmm. Elminster vs. Ehran in a mage-duel...

Better idea, a Yo Mamma Contest!

You would go there Canray..... but what does that leave for Fastjack?

Making them tag transit vehicles?

[Bruce]

In a 'typical'  Shadowrun campaign, the PCs would rarely have the opportunity to actually influence or change the major events of the Sixth World.  Shadowrun's roots are in dystopian, film-noir fiction and the heroes are lucky enough to survive, let alone change how things are done.

The runners are more like pro-active reporters, who occasionally get glimpses of what's behind the curtain but don't get a chance to do more than ad-lib a few lines of the play.  Consider that in SR4, one of the world's most capable spies and assassins was unable to change events in the Tir; Lugh Surehand survived.

Of course, not every campaign, GM and group will be happy working on the sidelines, and if they're happy with re-writing the universe, that's fine; but I think many players are drawn to Shadowrun partially because of those roots I mentioned, and wouldn't be content with a campaign that deviated too wildly from canon.

[Mercer]

Which in our DnD vocabulary is called a Monte Haul DM, which when someone is first DMing or still pretty new to it I believe it's hard not to do this. You want your friends to have kick ass items and do incredible things, but it's not too realistic to most of us playing.

Well like I say, there's always one grognard who thinks you had it too easy, but all sorts of groups play across all sorts of power levels.  If someone says they killed Tiamat, we may think they had it too easy or we may think I don't enjoy games at that power level, but we don't typically think, "You can't kill Tiamat she's a gawd!"

That said, if you bring up how your old group killed Damien Knight you're basically going to get a lot of bad noise about how everything you've every done in your life after touching a d6 has been wrong.  And probably rightfully so.  But the weird thing about it is that Tiamat is a five-headed immortal dragon goddess or something, Damien Knight is basically just a guy.  He's a smart guy with a mind-boggling amount of wealth at his disposal, but he can still get head colds and food poisoning and he needs to get his hair cut every so often.  He's still basically mortal.  But in the context of the system, he's generally viewed as being more powerful-- or at least harder to kill-- than the gods are in D&D. 

[JustADude]

That said, if you bring up how your old group killed Damien Knight you're basically going to get a lot of bad noise about how everything you've every done in your life after touching a d6 has been wrong.

Here's the thing... it's obscenely easy to take out a ViP; especially if the guy hiring you is smart enough not to make noise to put security on alert before hand. Even easier if you're just a couple people that get a bee in your bonnet and decide to go whack a CEO for giggles because, unless you're stupid and get yourself noticed, you'll have no visibility on the threat radar when the time comes.

The trick is doing it and getting away with it with life, limb, and freedom intact.

[Crash_00]

It might be extremely easy to take out a stupid VIP, but anyone with an ounce of intelligence is going to be very very well protected both physically and astrally. I would imagine Damien Knight having a security detail rivaling the secret service (physical, matrix, and astral), some of the best armor around (suited up with DA coating), and likely a spirit or to serving no greater function than being tasked to protect him. Between being able to easily wear 9-10 points of formal armor (more if he takes the precaution of putting on a FFBA suit for protection), having the resources to have his security mage constantly cast an armor spell on him, and having said spirits ready to wisk him away, you'd really only have one shot to pull it off. On top of that, at most public events, he'd probably have a physical barrier put up around him unless he's in motion. All this of course, at a realistically high force.

[CanRay]

Making them tag transit vehicles?

No, he'd do something...  Original.