[CanRay]

Don't forget that's all coming from him (Bluster?) and taunting and jokes from others (Playful teasing?).  He could be that way, I agree, but there's also the possibility he might be a hell of a lot smarter than that.

Stupid gets you dead in the Shadows after all, and doing just those things are the very nature of Stupid.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Well, the earlier stuff was manifestly not friendly teasing.  I'd suggest that he DID move around a lot, but that his rep is blown far, far out of proportion -- his bragging plus lots of work in the grey areas of media and social networks.

Again, I keep coming back to Horizon.  Is Kane an early experiment, or ... ??

[CanRay]

Possibly, there is apparently a movie being made about him, so...

Or he could just be the Poster Child for Pink Mohawk playstyle.  It appeals to some groups.  There are lots of different ways to play, and none of them are wrong.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Hey, I'm okay with the whole 'Bite My Snake' pink mohawk sort of shadowrunners.  I'm just not convinced that they'd ever a) make it to the big time or b) get 'good' shows or movies made about them no matter how much karma / street cred / public awareness they got.  All they'd get are fifteen minute blurbs on UCAS's Most Wanted and stuff.

At least, in my opinion.  I'm not adverse to those sorts of games, or even playing in them; it can be fun to cut loose and be wickedly violent and flamboyant.  I just don't think that they'd make the big time, presuming there's any sort of nod to realistic social/political/business activities happening.

[Mercer]

I don't know that more reputable runners would get the "good" tv shows though.  I'm guessing there are better bounty hunters than Dog, but he's the one on tv.  Most people on reality shows are train wrecks anyway and that seems to be much more popular than shows about people who know what they're doing.  (I don't know what the most watched reality show is, but if it involves any sort of Kardashian I'll take my point as proved.) 

I think one of the things we tend to do as GM's is make the popular culture in the game far more rational than it has ever been in reality.  I'll pick Twilight as an example.  (Justin Bieber would also work.)  I'd say 99% of the people I have personally discussed it with find sparkly vampires ridiculous and though I've had very little exposure to it, I think it looks pretty dumb.  But here's the thing, Twilight is really, really popular.  It's a very successful line of books and movies (for some reason). 

Following this line of reasoning, if I look at something in the SR world that I think is dumb, it's entirely possible that it would still be wildly popular.

[Xzylvador]

But here's the thing, Twilight is really, really popular.  It's a very successful line of books and movies (for some reason). 

It allows women to:
+ watch a love story
+ watch a story out of a women's perspective
+ watch an apparently handsome and mysterious guy
+ and another guy who looks photoshopped and walks around without a shirt all the time
+ coupled together with the perfect excuse to drag their lovers/husbands to that same movie (can't argue against "It's a movie about vampires and werewolves, you always watch that kind of stuff!")
+ and they know how much pain it causes said man to actually watch that movie

So women win 6 times, while the guy still ends up paying for the movie, drinks and snacks...
Of course it's popular! We're puppets in their hands, they know we'll do anything just for that minuscule chance that such suffering will be rewarded in some kind of physical way during or after that movie.

[Mirikon]

Loyalty only matters when someone is told that they're the distraction. Even if they decide to change up the run itself, what matters is that everyone's eyes are on them, while the real business is taken care of. As long as they don't know (or care) that they're just a shell game for something else going on in the same area, then they're golden.

Also, the 'quiet' kind of runner wouldn't get noticed, and so wouldn't be on any wanted lists.

[JustADude]

But here's the thing, Twilight is really, really popular.  It's a very successful line of books and movies (for some reason). 

It allows women to:
+ watch a love story
+ watch a story out of a women's perspective
+ watch an apparently handsome and mysterious guy
+ and another guy who looks photoshopped and walks around without a shirt all the time
+ coupled together with the perfect excuse to drag their lovers/husbands to that same movie (can't argue against "It's a movie about vampires and werewolves, you always watch that kind of stuff!")
+ and they know how much pain it causes said man to actually watch that movie

So women win 6 times, while the guy still ends up paying for the movie, drinks and snacks...
Of course it's popular! We're puppets in their hands, they know we'll do anything just for that minuscule chance that such suffering will be rewarded in some kind of physical way during or after that movie.

First off, Vampire =/= Sparkling Faerie Prettyboy. I mean, come on, the guy's Luke Perry crossed with Tinkerbell.

Secondly, and I may be unique in this, if my girlfriend can't respect my opinion enough to refrain from trying to inflict that crap on me, then I think that's a good reason to reevaluate our relationship, and I'd tell her so. Women only get to manipulate men emotionally if we're not willing to play the same games.

[kirk]

I don't like the twilight series - books or movies - but I think I need to interject a touch of reality here.

Folks, the Twilight series is TEEN Romance. It isn't "women" driving this, it's girls around the age of puberty.

Our (United States) market is aimed at that age. They've got a LOT of discretionary income. However, a basic market analysis will show that the majority of this is focused at boys, not girls.

Seriously. Look at ads, written and broadcast, and guess age and gender of target audience.

So what happened is that this hit a hole. There are better -- lots better, in almost any measure. But they weren't packaged or marketed, they didn't happen to be what caught the attention of some daughters and nieces and granddaughters of People Who Decide. And regardless of all other measures, the personal pressure from female kin is going to have at least as much weight as various experts with charts.

As to the series itself, for what it's worth my dislike isn't due to the sparkly pretty. It's the underlying story. The heroine is a rape victim, a passive sub to a bunch of heartless monsters who generally think of humans as cattle. The "loves" of the story are, from the point of view of their cultures, into bestiality.  I despise that the message to girls is "be helpless, be passive, and if you do you'll eventually enjoy the ride."

[Mercer]

I knew I should have used Bieber as an example.

My point wasn't really to start a discussion of the relative merits or marketing strategy of the Twilight franchise, I'm just saying that it's possible for things that seem kind of dumb to be popular in the game world because there are plenty of examples in the real world of things that seem kind of dumb that are popular.  To take it a step further, if pop culture in the game makes sense, we're probably doing it wrong.

[CanRay]

I knew I should have used Bieber as an example.

On behalf of my country...  I'm sorry.  We want him gone too. 

[kirk]

I knew I should have used Bieber as an example.

My point wasn't really to start a discussion of the relative merits or marketing strategy of the Twilight franchise, I'm just saying that it's possible for things that seem kind of dumb to be popular in the game world because there are plenty of examples in the real world of things that seem kind of dumb that are popular.  To take it a step further, if pop culture in the game makes sense, we're probably doing it wrong.

heh. Good point, with a caveat. See, pop culture should make sense, but only to the folk who've learned the logic behind the madness.

At heart, it's a mating display. It's a "look at me" display tempered by "while dramatic and outstanding I'm not so different as to be unacceptable." The differentiation is from "the crowd" which includes -- indeed is almost defined by -- the older generation which has wealth and power as its mating call. (Nevermind the parents, we're talking mating here.)

ALL pop culture is pretty and eye-catching in some fashion to the potential mates.

The reason it seems off - twilight and beiber and all the rest - is that you're not a prospective mate for that display.

[Simagal]

Kane is still around because he has not pissed off enough corporations at the same time to make it worth while to take him out. He admits to changing his genetics and  finger prints (more than likely his appearance also). If he truly double crossed everyone he works with, someone would have ratted him out by now.   

[Zilfer]

>.> I think someone already said it, but you wouldn't be on a Wanted list if you where the silent get out without being seen expert, that you think make it big. I'm sure there's some criminals out there that we know about who have made it big but we just aren't able to "catch".

[beowulf_of_wa]

George Soros?
Bill Gates?
the President?