[Mäx]

Again, why wouldn't it make sense? The local government gets to sell permits for things, which gives them a record of who (legally) has these weapons. If the ammo is also harder to come by, then when one of these weapons is used in a bad way, you send cops to the people registered as having the gun, just to make sure it hasn't been 'misplaced', and send them around to the few arms dealers who can handle specialized ammo like that. Even if they can't get enough to make an arrest, simply having a surveillance van tailing them is going to make the arms dealers twitchy enough that they either will get out of selling that kind of ammo, or will be making it much tougher on their customers to cover the cost of avoiding the scrutiny. Either way, it acts as an active deterrent to keep the weapons from being misused.

It makes absolutely no sense as there is no right way to use these guns, just owning ammo to them gets you thrown in prison.
Thats kinda like making comlink operating systems illegal while keeping the commlinks them self as somethink anyone can buy, how exactly are people supposed to use them.

[Mirikon]

Again, why wouldn't it make sense? The local government gets to sell permits for things, which gives them a record of who (legally) has these weapons. If the ammo is also harder to come by, then when one of these weapons is used in a bad way, you send cops to the people registered as having the gun, just to make sure it hasn't been 'misplaced', and send them around to the few arms dealers who can handle specialized ammo like that. Even if they can't get enough to make an arrest, simply having a surveillance van tailing them is going to make the arms dealers twitchy enough that they either will get out of selling that kind of ammo, or will be making it much tougher on their customers to cover the cost of avoiding the scrutiny. Either way, it acts as an active deterrent to keep the weapons from being misused.

It makes absolutely no sense as there is no right way to use these guns, just owning ammo to them gets you thrown in prison.
Thats kinda like making comlink operating systems illegal while keeping the commlinks them self as somethink anyone can buy, how exactly are people supposed to use them.

There is a right way to use the guns, Max. Namely: police, corporate security, military, security contractors, licensed mercenaries, and hanging it on a wall/displaying it on your desk.

[Mäx]

There is a right way to use the guns, Max. Namely: police, corporate security, military, security contractors, licensed mercenaries

None of who have trouble getting F rated guns if they can get F rated ammo, so once again please tell me whats the point of the gun(s) being R rated.
Also none of them own the guns themself except maybe the merc(even in his case the good stuff most likely belongs to the merc company)

[Sengir]

I never said anything about the individuals owning the weapons, or the ammo.

OK, let's take your backpedaling at face value: You said this ammunition can be owned with a SIN, yet this was only referring to cases where the ammo is owned by some legal entity.
Therefore you obviously claim that corps or nations have a SIN. Given that a SIN includes biometrics, genetic information, and a nationality, you therefore just told us that the UCAS has genes and is citizen of some corp/nation.

You really would have been better off just saying "oops, I confused two letters". Si tacuisses...

[Aryeonos]

Those two things, geen'yoos.

And again, making something illegal to own (Not slap on the wrist you don't have a permit illegal. You're violating a convention of war by being an illegitimate combatant by holding on to this, illegal.) Is not, ever, going to stop people from getting it, whatever it is. You probably won't see jimmy cruising around in his Gaz Willies with a CIWS gun bolted into it every day. But Mr. and Ms. Doe (or Mr. UCAS) live in a bad neighborhood and understand that regular 9mm's aren't going to save their lives in a pinch, but they know the top shelf magnum load +P rounds that are forbidden that go in their registered guns WILL. People, criminal or otherwise, will get what they believe they need, outlawing it makes it so that NOW the item in question is being produced by underground sources and isn't traceable with nice RFID tags and being filed under their SIN. So now, you think that everyone is being good with their gun licenses and collecting pistols, completely unaware that that collectors item is actually in Ms. Doe's purse and loaded.

[Prodigy]

Max, the fact is that even in the military, someone's name is on the purchase order. It is probably a general at the fighter jet level, but the point is valid. I have personally driven in my own vehicle with 6 M240B machine guns in the back. (They were secure BTW) I still had to show ID and paperwork to get onto the base. An engineer for Lockheed may have Top Secret documents to transport. Gotta have ID for that (and a slew of other restrictions). The point is, they don't own the weapons (or documents, etc.) but they (I) dang sure had possession if them. All those cases still require a SIN.

[FuelDrop]

Honestly, while I consider it stupid that the guns are legal and the ammo is not, that's not the biggest problem for a shadowrunner (Who the setting revolves around and, lets face it, who we're primarily interested in. It's not called Wageslave: 6th world edition after all!).

The big problem for a shadowrunner is that many of the guns that come with high powered chambering as standard (Which are almost universally better than just grabbing a gun from the same category and adding the upgrade after market) are available at character generation, but to buy ammunition for them you need to take the restricted gear quality. Gameplay wise this makes no sense to me.

[Mäx]

Max, the fact is that even in the military, someone's name is on the purchase order. It is probably a general at the fighter jet level, but the point is valid. I have personally driven in my own vehicle with 6 M240B machine guns in the back. (They were secure BTW) I still had to show ID and paperwork to get onto the base. An engineer for Lockheed may have Top Secret documents to transport. Gotta have ID for that (and a slew of other restrictions). The point is, they don't own the weapons (or documents, etc.) but they (I) dang sure had possession if them. All those cases still require a SIN.

But militaries and what not have absolutely no bearing on the legal codes in the books, those are for civilians only(if you really havent noticed, the military gear is pretty universally F rated, barring few oddities)

[Mirikon]

Yes, meaning that civilians can have the new shiny as a wallhanger, but actually being able to use it means you're either breaking laws or are part of a military, corpsec, or whatever.

[Sengir]

Those two things, geen'yoos.

And again, making something illegal to own (Not slap on the wrist you don't have a permit illegal. You're violating a convention of war by being an illegitimate combatant by holding on to this, illegal.) Is not, ever, going to stop people from getting it, whatever it is. You probably won't see jimmy cruising around in his Gaz Willies with a CIWS gun bolted into it every day. But Mr. and Ms. Doe (or Mr. UCAS) live in a bad neighborhood and understand that regular 9mm's aren't going to save their lives in a pinch, but they know the top shelf magnum load +P rounds that are forbidden that go in their registered guns WILL. People, criminal or otherwise, will get what they believe they need, outlawing it makes it so that NOW the item in question is being produced by underground sources and isn't traceable with nice RFID tags and being filed under their SIN. So now, you think that everyone is being good with their gun licenses and collecting pistols, completely unaware that that collectors item is actually in Ms. Doe's purse and loaded.

Which has to do what with the topic and hand? Oh nevermind, you just wanted to rant about gun control a bit...

[Aryeonos]

No, I'm pointing out how Mirikon's point doesn't make sense. But, glad you were there to notice that.

Yes, meaning that civilians can have the new shiny as a wallhanger, but actually being able to use it means you're either breaking laws or are part of a military, corpsec, or whatever.

Did you miss the point? Making something illegal isn't going to stop anyone who feels they have reason to own it, it just makes it untaxable, and untraceable. That is not in corp interest.

[Mirikon]

No, I'm pointing out how Mirikon's point doesn't make sense. But, glad you were there to notice that.

Yes, meaning that civilians can have the new shiny as a wallhanger, but actually being able to use it means you're either breaking laws or are part of a military, corpsec, or whatever.

Did you miss the point? Making something illegal isn't going to stop anyone who feels they have reason to own it, it just makes it untaxable, and untraceable. That is not in corp interest.

1) Corps don't collect taxes on things off corporate property.
2) Just because it is illegal, doesn't mean it is untraceable. Two words: Stealth RFIDs. I could go on into the various other ways specialty ammo could be traced, but that'll do for now.
3) Whether the ammo is sold at Weapons World or at the Crime Mall, the corp that made the ammo still profits. Or did you think that corps don't arrange for items to 'find' their way into the black market?
4) A controlled supply of ammo makes troublesome weapons less likely to be used wantonly against you.
5) If you limit the supply of ammo, that means anyone wanting to use that ammo needs to come to you. That same philosophy can be seen in Gun Heaven 2, with the discussion on S-K's new bullets. Control the supply, and you are able to control how it is used against you.

[Mäx]

5) If you limit the supply of ammo, that means anyone wanting to use that ammo needs to come to you. That same philosophy can be seen in Gun Heaven 2, with the discussion on S-K's new bullets. Control the supply, and you are able to control how it is used against you.

That is the only ammo type in the setting that is pretty well controlled by someone and considering it suck SK can keep it.

[Mirikon]

It might not be that great, yet. But Mk. 1 means they plan to make improvements...

[Aryeonos]

Because no one has the technology to make their own guns and ammo, and making it harder to get something will increase their profits.