[Shango]

I finished running my first game under the new rules last night (I REALLY have to look at those combat rules again...) and I realized that the payoff for the run was kinda, well, cheap.
I ran the intro run that came with the runner's tool kit and the group managed to score 15k nuyen. Now divided by 5 runners that comes to like 3k each. Assuming that a runner can make 2 such runs a month, that barley supports a middle lifestyle.
I was thinking of allowing my players to purchase a positive quality called "Has a job" maybe "Has an income" for 5bp per level, max 2 levels. Level one reduces the cost of a lifestyle by half, level 2 reduces it to a quarter. Having the job or income would also require the player to devote SOME time (depending on the level) to actually maintaining the job/income.
Comments?
-Erich

[rasmusnicolaj]

Day Job is a negative quality.

Regards
Rasmus

[Valashar]

Basic runs, such as the 'On the Run' adventure, that take from 2-4 in-game days to complete, are something that a team can possibly pull 3-4 of in a month (provided that their rep is enough to have their names out there or they keep up a 'winning' record to avoid getting temporarily blackballed). If they get paid 2-3k per such job, then they're earning plenty of money to support a low or middle lifestyle and still have enough to cover gear maintenance/improvement, training costs, and minor medical expenses. Jobs that take longer and/or involve more dangerous circumstances will naturally bring in more cash (the Artifact adventures give several examples of such pay scales).

Just remember that being a runner isn't meant to be an easy road to a steady income (that's the area of Joe Wageslave, which most runners never want to be), but there are options. As the Day Job negative quality (out of Runner's Companion) shows, working a 40-hour week in a baseline job covers middle lifestyle perfectly. If a character has Day Job and Fame as the 5-point level (local fame), then they bring in triple the job's income (so a 20-hour/week job could cover more than middle). The quality Trust Fund is another way to have a good lifestyle without any/much effort on the runner's part. Of course, these require the SINner negative quality at the non-criminal level (5 points), and both provide ways in which their normal lives can get in the way of less legal jobs, but clever players or GMs can work with this.

[Shango]

Hmmm,
Gues i'll have to pick up a copy of the runner's companian.
-Erich

[CanRay]

After taking into consideration the increased expenses that Shadowrunners have, as well as the constant need to upgrade to the State of Yesterday's Art technology, and general equipment loss, they typically make about as much as a Minimum Wage Wageslave (If there was a Minimum Wage any longer, that is.).

But, there's the action, the thrill, the fact that you're only working, what, a WEEK a month?  And when you score big, which is the goal of every Shadowrunner, it's either time to upgrade and get bigger jobs, or to try and get out to buy that bar you've always wanted.

Most don't make it.  What?  50% of 'Runners don't survive their first job, and 90% don't survive the first year?  Live fast, die young, and let CorpSec figure out the bodily remains.

[Phylos Fett]

If your runners are happy with the amount of money that they have, are living High lifestyles, and haven't tried to supplement their income by selling whatever else they can acquire on a run, or some other wacky scheme, then you're paying them too much.

At least, that's my thoughts as a GM.

[Mystic]

Also, if a runner has a praticular skill, they can ply that skill to friends and associates on the sides for a little extra yen or as a means to keep up contacts without having to completely resort to a full blown 'day job'. Example: an old rigger of mine used to do a lot of vehicle customization work when not actively running. A little paint here, a better engine there, some armor over there, a hidden weapons mount there...

I ended up doing so many services for my team and associates, I only did runs as a means to field test my new toys.

[Phylos Fett]

Also, if a runner has a praticular skill, they can ply that skill to friends and associates on the sides for a little extra yen or as a means to keep up contacts without having to completely resort to a full blown 'day job'. Example: an old rigger of mine used to do a lot of vehicle customization work when not actively running. A little paint here, a better engine there, some armor over there, a hidden weapons mount there...

I ended up doing so many services for my team and associates, I only did runs as a means to field test my new toys.

One of the Riggers I used to GM for tried to make some cash on the side by visiting scrap yards and buying up smashed versions of the same vehicle, cannibalizing parts and panels, and selling off the intact results. Gave him a good in with the scrap yards, and lead to more work down the track. Didn't really make him a lot of money, though

[Solomon]

Shadowrunning is without a doubt the most dangerous, elite criminal endeavor in the 6th world. If you can make more carjacking wageslaves, something seems really wrong to me. Also, working 3 or 4 runs a months seems insane to me. If you do some wetwork or a kidnapping you should be spending a lot more than 3 or 4 days laying low between runs. I would never hire somebody to do a run for me when their last target may still be actively angry and looking for payback. It could interfere with what I am paying for. I really wish the setting provided a little more guidance on how much a Shadowrun costs, you see a few short stories where Netcat makes 100,000 nuyen for a run by herself but not much about money for non prime runners. I figure after a few runs that at least more or less succeed there should be more than enough money to maintain a high lifestyle and maintain current gear or a low or medium with plenty of opportunity to upgrade gear. If you cant live reasonably well, why wouldnt you keep robbing stuffer shacks and stealing Nissan rabbits?

[Mystic]

*snip*

Gave him a good in with the scrap yards, and lead to more work down the track. Didn't really make him a lot of money, though

In Shadowrun, a good friend is often worth more than gold.

[kirk]

Let's slam through the basics.

Fixed costs: docwagon (assume gold, because sooner or later you're going to pay HTRs and docwagon survivor fees), maintenance of gear and supplies, and lifestyle expenses. Assuming middle lifestyle, you're looking at a fixed cost of between 8 and 10 thousand a month.

Variable expenses: you're going to have expenditures such as ammo and repair/replacement of gear. While each mission will vary I'll assume a floor of 2,000¥. Yes, some runners can do it for less than a thousand. I am not sure how they're repairing armor and clothes, but that's the claim. Thing is if the mission goes pear-shaped the costs will go higher. If you're not getting "expenses" you need to get enough from the inexpensive runs to pay for the expensive ones. If you assume a nasty run forces you to dump 10% of your gear that's a nominal 25,000¥ (10% of 50 BP chargen cap for gear @ 5000¥ per BP).

Swagging that last paragraph, assume 4 easy and 1 ugly. 8,000 + 25,000 is 33,000, divided by 5 is 6,600¥ breakeven variable expenses.

Assume, for easy math, ten runs per year. That's 66,000 for variable expenses and call it 100,000¥ for fixed for 166,000¥ per year.  That means your runs should be earning you an average of 16,600¥ for pure breakeven. Note that paydata and fenced goods can make up for part of this.

If you do 25 runs a year, or just over two runs a month average (easy runs don't force you to hide so you can do them back to back) it's 33,000 x 5 plus the 100,000, or 265,000. You can earn less; it's down to 10,600¥.

Take out the docwagon (don't forget to move medical costs to the variable costs), reduce the lifestyle, and what you need goes down. Run some truly ugly missions and your costs go up.

[The Big Peat]

Not all runs are equal.

'On the Run', as far as I understand, is an opening adventure. Its a milkrun. They never pay amazingly well. You could make a decent living from doing a lot of them, as by and large you don't need to lie low after doing them. You are also less likely to need big medical expenses, equipment replacement and so on.

Most runners won't do that many milkruns. Once they've done a few, the fixers start trusting them and throw them more serious work. Bigger pay, bigger risks. If you think your character should be making a living out of doing a couple of runs a month, these are the jobs you need to be doing.

And it scales up.

How much is really a question for individual GMs. To Phylos, taking loot is part of the game. To me, runners that go in with looting bags don't get many jobs at its unprofessional. The pay in my games is built around the assumption that the PCs won't make much on the side. In some people's games, working on the side like Mystic's character might be frowned upon. And so on.

So, basically, work out how much you'd like them to have and give it to them (possibly with balance subtracted for clever players). But don't feel bad about giving them milkrun levels of money for milkrun jobs.

[CanRay]

It's the milk runs that kill you and cost you the most...

[kirk]

It's the milk runs that kill you and cost you the most...

The check's in the mail.
I gave at the office.
It's a milk run.
What could possibly go wrong?

[CanRay]

"It'll be easy."