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Sell me on adepts

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Critias

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« Reply #15 on: <08-25-11/1030:59> »
What are the benefits of taking a way? I found them listed in street magic, but all they give is a description of the concept, no gameplay rules or benefits.
Which was a big reason I wanted to write The Way of the Adept -- http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=91004 -- because that had been the case with Ways for multiple editions now, and I always thought it sucked. 

In SR3, in fact, Ways were spelled out in Magic in the Shadows, and then it said "Ohbtw, if you don't pick a Way, your GM might make your powers cost 25% more.  LOL, have fun kids," which was just totally back-asswards to me.  New material shouldn't exist solely for the purpose of mechanically penalizing and punishing players for buying a book, IMO, and that's all Ways did for quite a while.

The Big Peat

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« Reply #16 on: <08-25-11/1046:09> »
Long story short, as already mention, straight Adepts are not at the top tier of power in Shadowrun. They're nowhere near really and as and when they come out with Shadowrun 5, they might want to solve that. Applying Ways for free might help. But we're getting into house rule territory here.

However, they're not useless. They can kick a fair amount of arse and while there's almost always a better way of doing it with cyber, its only a few dice as a rule. I don't know what your table is like, but unless they all believe in bringing the A game all the time, you probably won't feel out of place. The only real downside is the nagging voice in the back of your head saying 'I could have had more'. I'd say ignore that voice, but I know I struggle to.

TheCommanders

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« Reply #17 on: <08-25-11/1135:07> »
Check the Street Magic errata.

Aha! There it is! Glad to know I wasn't just missing it, cause I was pretty sure I had read most of street magic.

For anyone who is curious, the actual "rule" is this:

Quote
“Adep. Initiation. Group. may consider allowing adepts to gain
1 Power Point instead of a Metamagic at Initiation.”

baronspam

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« Reply #18 on: <08-25-11/1329:33> »
As others have said, the pure magic adept will come out sub part to the augmented character almost every time.  That isn't to say they are not playable, but they are sub-optimal.

The most mechanically effective adepts are ones what start with a high magic but loose a point or two of essence to bioware.  Raising  your agility and strength through bioware is vastly more efficient than paying for it through adept powers.

Adepts tend to be hyper specialists.  Pick one thing and get incredibly good at it.   Unarmed combat is a good example.  A adept with a bit of bioware can be throwing high teen dice pools for unarmed, hitting for both killing and electrical damage when they wish to, and can do things like punch spirits in the face to good effect.  Blade adepts have the advantage of using weapon focuses.  When you build an adept go all in.  If you are a pistol adept, you want to soft cap your agility, get a restricted gear quality, buy muscle tone 4, buy pistols 6, use an adept power to increase your skill to pistols (9), throw in a specialization, and then get really, really good guns.  With a smartgun link on some goggles thats 9+9+2+2=22 dice with your specialized pistols at char gen.  Bang freaking bang.

I will admit, you may not have alot else to do when you can't play gunslinger.  But thats the nature of adepts.  Hyper specialize.

The Big Peat

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« Reply #19 on: <08-25-11/1406:30> »
To put a different spin on that though...

Drop the pistol skill improvement, take kinesics; softcap cha (this build is naturally biased towards elves). Social group to 4. Outside of combat, you now have 12 dice which you can have fun with (14 if you went as an elf), and your pistol skill is 'only' 19 dice. 20 if you went elf. I don't you neccesarily need to hyperspecialise. And you've only spent 80 points of attributes (a fair whack admittedly), 66 points on skills, about 7bp on gear (I think), 10 for the qualities, plus however much magic you've taken. Which is not a trifling investment, but doable. There are problems with it (for a front line fighter, its going to be squishy) but it works. Sort of.

Plus, in background count areas, you simply drop the part of your Adept powers not relevant to the moment.

Of course, it gets even more difficult if you do it all with Adept powers.

Critias

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« Reply #20 on: <08-25-11/1423:11> »
The extent to which adepts "must" hyperspecialize is the same as the extent to which any build needs those same crazy-high dice pools; it all comes down to the table you're running the character at.  In lots of games, a 14-16 in Pistols is plenty, in others it might take that 20+ to run "par" with other characters.  In some games, that base of 12 social dice is more than enough, in others it means the Pornomancer is still flinging four times as many as you are, so you're about a third-stringer.

baronspam

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« Reply #21 on: <08-25-11/1426:59> »
To put a different spin on that though...

Drop the pistol skill improvement, take kinesics; softcap cha (this build is naturally biased towards elves). Social group to 4. Outside of combat, you now have 12 dice which you can have fun with (14 if you went as an elf), and your pistol skill is 'only' 19 dice. 20 if you went elf. I don't you neccesarily need to hyperspecialise. And you've only spent 80 points of attributes (a fair whack admittedly), 66 points on skills, about 7bp on gear (I think), 10 for the qualities, plus however much magic you've taken. Which is not a trifling investment, but doable. There are problems with it (for a front line fighter, its going to be squishy) but it works. Sort of.

Plus, in background count areas, you simply drop the part of your Adept powers not relevant to the moment.

Of course, it gets even more difficult if you do it all with Adept powers.

Something like this would be a great character for a Denver "city of spies" campaign where subtle force, legwork, and lots of security checks are common.

The Big Peat

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« Reply #22 on: <08-25-11/1449:12> »
Something like this would be a great character for a Denver "city of spies" campaign where subtle force, legwork, and lots of security checks are common.

Very much so, which is how Shadowrun should be for me! Been toying with how to work such a character for ages. Never seem to be able to fit everything I want into 435bp though...

Tsuzua

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« Reply #23 on: <08-25-11/1510:15> »
Very much so, which is how Shadowrun should be for me! Been toying with how to work such a character for ages. Never seem to be able to fit everything I want into 435bp though...

While not an adept, you can look at one of Umaro's archetype character the Negotiator for ideas / a solid base the character.  You might also want to look at the the Spook as well even though he's a mundane.


Critias

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« Reply #24 on: <08-25-11/1520:52> »
Something like this would be a great character for a Denver "city of spies" campaign where subtle force, legwork, and lots of security checks are common.
An Elven adept that's good with a pistol, fast-talking, and all-around handy in a spy game?  Crazy!   

*whistles innocently*

Xzylvador

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« Reply #25 on: <08-25-11/1535:21> »
^ Yup, never been done before. I hear it's impossible...
Should anyone ever succeed, it would be really, really original and such characters should be rewarded with quadruple karma.

*joins in on the tune*

Critias

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« Reply #26 on: <08-25-11/1608:44> »
Hey, I'm not knockin' it.  Just saying it's (obviously) a favorite of mine.

Xzylvador

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« Reply #27 on: <08-25-11/1627:44> »
It's only a cliché if it's a "night elf" in latex.

Chrona

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« Reply #28 on: <08-25-11/1629:39> »
^ Yup, never been done before. I hear it's impossible...
Should anyone ever succeed, it would be really, really original and such characters should be rewarded with quadruple karma.

No.

rasmusnicolaj

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« Reply #29 on: <08-26-11/0200:18> »
Check the Street Magic errata.

Aha! There it is! Glad to know I wasn't just missing it, cause I was pretty sure I had read most of street magic.

For anyone who is curious, the actual "rule" is this:

Quote
“Adept. Initiation. Group. may consider allowing adepts to gain
1 Power Point instead of a Metamagic at Initiation.”

Does that mean that an adept when he initiates and chose a power point also can get one from bying his magic to 7?

Regards
Rasmus

PS: You can play a pornomancer? Why haven't nobody told me that before? It sounds like a lot of more fun than being a standard runner that tends just to be shot at...
Deplore killings made in the name of religion. Can't it just be for fun?