[incrdbil]

Another group I'm playing with is working up characters....

and apparently, Humans are extinct. elves are scoffed at. the world is composed of a minority of Dwarfs, and the rest is Orks and Trolls.

No one wants to play a human, as they are so points inefficient, or be an Elf.  I think the highest Charisma in the group is a 2 so far.

I'm considering changing the cost of races like this. Every characteristic Point increase is +10 BP. Every point of maximum characteristic decrease subtracts 5 BP. Senses, other abilities will be costed at 5 to 10 BP each. (Dermal Armor is a 10, enhanced senses 5, the extra BP versus disease..5..or maybe less, its a pretty meaningless ability).

Anyone else doing this?

The only counterbalancing factor I can think is ramp up the hostile racism, and  still don't think that'll matter.

I find myself fighting a lot of the starting character creation rules--the attribute points limit, the gear limit, the availability restriction, the extra surcharge attached to havign a 6 attribute or skill, and how many of the qualities need to be recosted to be a fair value.
, but the extinction of humans as a player choice is pretty alarming.

[CanRay]

My $Deity!  THE HUMANIS POLICLUB WAS RIGHT!!!

[Chrona]

Make everything social

[incrdbil]

Make everything social

thats just it--how do I quanitfy enough social penalty to equate to the BP benefoits? How many extra drive buys by Humanis Policlub members balances out the Trolls stat superiority over an Elf?

[incrdbil]

Ok, here is my first thought: make it al a zero sum game. i've looked at the races, and assigned values to all of their benefits,  and noted their mechanics based disadvantages. roleplaying social issues are not quanitfiable, so don't figure into it. any prejudice a Ork or Troll might face in a corporate world is more is easily made up by the fact runners dont spend much time in those circles, and a straight human or elf visting the underground is now at a disadvantage.

Metatype     BP                             Tota lBonus     Net Points

Human          0        +1 Edge (10 BP)                     10      10
            
Ork           20       +3 Body +2 STR (+50) - 1 to CHA, LOG MAX (-10)                          45      25
         Low Light Vision (5 BP)

Dwarf         25      +1 BOD, + 2 STR + 1 WIL,(+40) -1 INI Max (-5)                  40      15
              Thermographic Vision (+5) +2 Body Dice vs Disease,(+3) 
          Reduced Move (-3)


Elf            30       +1 AGL, +2 CHA, Low Light Vision (+5)                      35      5


Troll          40       +4 BOD +4 STR,(+80)                               70      30
      -1 to AGL, INT, INI, LOG Max, -2 CHA Max Bonus (-30) 
      Reach (+5), Dermal Armor (+5), Thermographic Vision (+5)
      Move (+5)
ok, looking at the largest difference between what you pay for the race, and what you get, the Troll whens with 30 Net points in his favor. Elves come in last, only 5 points to the good.


Balancing Factor--the difference between each races total net points, and that of the most advantaged race (trolls) is made up in free positive quality points that exist outside of the normal BP limit rules)

Humans receive a Bonus 20 BP for positive Qualities. Orks: 5 Dwarfs: 15 Elves 25 Trolls : 0

Now, there are still advantages to the meta race: these positive quality points can't be diverted to skills, or attributes, directly, though he may save on positive qualities he meant to buy anyway and use them for that purpose.) Or the humans just take fewer negative qualities. Still if you want to eat bullets and wrestle critters, Ork and Troll is still your best bet.  But now that weeenie human can take advantage of his priveleged social position, maybe with extra gear availability, a better education, or a trust fund. That Elf makea a great first impression, and is darn chatty. 

thoughts?

[Chaemera]

I don't seem to have this problem... perhaps because my players realize that being able to withstand every bullet and beat down every door is less useful than being able to avoid being hit (reaction), being able to hit (agility), not getting into a fight (charisma, intuition, logic, willpower, general roleplaying), getting through high security undetected (agility, reaction, charisma, intuition, logic, general roleplaying), &c. I could go on all day.

The reason for the pricing is that sure, the Troll has much higher body/strength + some other fringe (mostly combat related) benefits; however, a shadowrunner is still thoroughly outgunned and outnumbered. If you can survive on just your body & strength, then the problem may not be with the player's build choices. Give them more situations where they can't beat their way out of them, if you really want to encourage different build choices.

On the other hand, if everyone is having a fun time at the table, is there really a problem that needs fixing?

[CanRay]

Try bluffing your way into a Japanese Corporation as anything other than a Human.  Good luck.

[Dead Monky]

No kidding.  Make them run against Yakashima for a laugh or two.  "Um....I'm tall for my age?  "

[CanRay]

Don't want to use your bad Japanese accent?

Humanis-Alligned A-Corporation.  Same issue, different ethnicity.

[Dead Monky]

Don't want to use your bad Japanese accent?

Nobody wants to hear my bad Japanese accent.  I sound like a drunk samurai with a speech impediment.

[CanRay]

I've been told that if I do my Irish accent again, I'll be beaten.   

[incrdbil]

Try bluffing your way into a Japanese Corporation as anything other than a Human.  Good luck.

thats just it. Enforcing such conventiosn leads to them not taking such a run, or simply resorting to other methods. (Bribery, blackmail, posing as disposable riff raff or the good old reliable ultra-violence)  I coudl structure every adventure to punish them for their character choices, force them into missions and situations they are ill suited for, but that's not a very fun option, and will probably lead to a dead game in short order. they'll feel like i'm abusing them because they went with what seemd to be the direction the rules pushed them.

Even if I introduced a firm mechanic in all social interactions outiside of other orks and trolls that, trolls get x penalty, orks get Y penalty, (and Elves get a little bonus), I'm not sure if that will make up.  They'll just abandon such interactions, and maybe one player will be come the token human or elf to be a face. (Honestly, I havent heard a bit of interest in the group of beign a face type, probably the old mage defaults as the spokesman bit again.

[Dead Monky]

You could always just run with it and set the game in some Third World hellhole, a war zone, or a feral city or something then.  Plenty of opportunities for ass kicking, head crushing, and strong arming things there.

[CanRay]

You could always just run with it and set the game in some Third World hellhole, a war zone, or a feral city or something then.  Plenty of opportunities for ass kicking, head crushing, and strong arming things there.

The game already exists mostly in Seattle. 

[Dead Monky]

The game already exists mostly in Seattle. 

Good point.