[Walks Through Walls]

How do they interact with their contacts? That is social skills. How about when they meet with the Johnson? If they don't have some negotiation then they get his terms whatever they might be. You say they walk away from any job that isn't right up their alley. Then say alright fair enough. A month passes, pay rent etc. then pitch the next adventure. If they decline again same thing. It doesn't take long to realize that without money coming in it is hard to pay the bills. Remember desperate people do desperate things.

Even if they are combat heavy remember anti-muscle rule #1. Always hit the troll(or other tank type) with a mana spell.
Imagine everyones dispair when the mage uses control actions on the biggest troll and has him starting to hack/attack the second toughest character.

Another option is grenades, and they don't have to be the type that go boom and make chunky salsa. Nuero stun can be nasty, and there is much worse out there if someone wants or feels they need to use it.

Now I'm not saying that you should always punish the team, but a few of these things can start to lead the game back the way you want it to.

[Loki]

First of most gear cost trolls +50% due to nescesary size modification. Second, if they don't see the usefulness of a high Cha character they are fools, that's about the most polite way I can say it. Roleplay another runner team talking about how they got significantly more money for the same type of job they just got peanuts for.

They do understand this ain't no hack and slash fest with guns right?

[Chaemera]

Alternately, if they want a hack-n-slash game, with minimal social interaction, & no concerns for anything outside bash-door, bash-skull, get-money, give it to them. That is, of course, assuming that that's the sort of game you want them to play.

Giving freebie points to the races they don't like is only marginally different from "punishing" them by bringing to bear the setting that is Shadowrun. They'll just use the bonus points to make more combat monkeys, just with a different metatype written down on the character sheet. Nothing wrong with it, if everyone at the table is having fun, but I don't see how it serves any purpose what-so-ever. It's still smash, grab, shoot, scoot.

You seem to really want a game that's more than hack-n-slash. That doesn't mean rewarding players who choose "less optimal" combat monkey metatypes, it means making sure they realize how much easier it actually would be to not blow up the target facility to get rid of the prototype that's inside. If, instead, they sneak inside (regardless of metatype), get past the security, and secure the prototype; then they can enjoy selling the prototype later (and possibly pick up some other odds and ends while they're there).

[incrdbil]

I think the solution with the positive qualities will help encourage some human and elf PC's, as they players will see less shortchanging. It's a mechanical thing thats the problem.  In theorey, they can have a decently effective ork 'face' (with human looking) since he'd effectively have more BP to spend than a human. I am sure they'ld nominate one token face player.

Just trying to even the playing field, which is titlted against human and elf characters in terms.

[Walks Through Walls]

I disagree that the playing field is tilted against elves. They may not get the body and strength bonuses that orks and trolls do, but they can make great combat characters, and have a decent (even great relatively) charisma to boot. That isn't even looking at the elven shamatic mage who gets to use the boosted charisma to help resist drain, control more spirits etc.

It depends how you want to build your character to which race is best suited. If all you care about is brawn and body then yes go troll or ork. However, if you want something with some stealth or surprise factor (not just the sneaking kind) then elves make a great choice.

An elf gun adept is just down right sick. you can buy up your agility then boost it, take your gun type of choice to 5 or 6 specialize then take a couple of levels of improved ability and you are quickly throwing close to 20 dice per shot. Double tapping and you can down a lot of things. Add in some mystic armor and you can do alright at resisting attacks too. Or if you want to round out your staying power add magic resistance so when the mage uses the adage of "Hit the tank with mana spells" you have more dice to resist with and you can be spooky.

[incrdbil]

I disagree that the playing field is tilted against elves. They may not get the body and strength bonuses that orks and trolls do, but they can make great combat characters, and have a decent (even great relatively) charisma to boot. That isn't even looking at the elven shamatic mage who gets to use the boosted charisma to help resist drain, control more spirits etc.

It's simple math. An elf character gets a net gain of 5 points. A Troll gets 30, and Ork 25. Trolls and Orks get more character points than elves or humans, players will build to that. 

[CanRay]

Ah, ROLL Players rather than ROLE Players...

[incrdbil]

It has nothing to do with role playing--not thatplayers should be penalized for roleplaying, which is sort of the situation here.

[Angelone]

Play up the racism. Use the tables and see how far no charisma gets them.

Honestly though, if they're having fun let them. I like to cut loose every once in a while and just go wreck something. Are the majority of your games serious? Could they be just blowing off some steam?

[CanRay]

Sometimes you have Ice Cold Mirrorshades and Trenchcoats, other times you want Pink Mohawks, Mirrorshades and Razor Blades!

[Fizzygoo]

Looking at those net points
Human: 0
Dwarf: 15
Elf: 5
Orc: 25
Troll: 30

Play up the racism.

Those net points really mirror the "strength" of prejudice towards those metahumans. (Maybe a little high for dwarves, 10 would be more inline with my thinking, but then again I like dwarves, hehe).

[Angelone]

I could never stand the short races in any game I played, except kobalds. The Kobald bard from NWN1/2 warmed my heart to them.

[incrdbil]

A thought occurred. Dwarfds and Trolsl face extra expenses and difficulties just in general due to size. Places they can fit in, or sit comfortably, gear costs adjustments and so on. so I adjusted their net points bonus in both cases.  So now everyone gets 5 points less (except trolls who stay at zero in bonus qualities). So now it looks like this:

Metatype     BP                             Total Bonus     Net Points

Human     0                         +1 Edge (10 BP)                     10      10   
Ork           20          +3 Body +2 STR (+50) - 1 to CHA, LOG MAX (-10)          45      25                                             Low Light Vision (5 BP)
Dwarf       25         +1 BOD, + 2 STR + 1 WIL,(+40) -1 INI Max (-5)               35      10
              Thermographic Vision (+5) +2 Body Dice vs Disease,(+3) 
          Reduced Move (-3) Size Adjustment (-5)
Elf            30          +1 AGL, +2 CHA, Low Light Vision (+5)                  35      5
Troll         40          +4 BOD +4 STR,(+80)                65      25
         -1 to AGL, INT, INI, LOG Max, -2 CHA Max Bonus (-30) 
         Reach (+5), Dermal Armor (+5), Thermographic Vision (+5)
         Enhanced Move (+5) (Size Adjustment -5)

Balancing Factor

These must be spent on positive qualities, and not transferred to anything else.

Humans 15
Dwarfs: 10
Elves 20
Trolls and Orks: 0

[Kontact]

It has nothing to do with role playing--not thatplayers should be penalized for roleplaying, which is sort of the situation here.

My preferred solution is to raise caps, allowing humans more leeway in their point spread in order to simulate their far greater diversity.
So, using a base of 400bp, a human could spend up to
220bp on attributes
55bp on gear
40bp worth of pos/neg qualities

[Chaemera]

I disagree that the playing field is tilted against elves. They may not get the body and strength bonuses that orks and trolls do, but they can make great combat characters, and have a decent (even great relatively) charisma to boot. That isn't even looking at the elven shamatic mage who gets to use the boosted charisma to help resist drain, control more spirits etc.

It's simple math. An elf character gets a net gain of 5 points. A Troll gets 30, and Ork 25. Trolls and Orks get more character points than elves or humans, players will build to that.

It's not "simple math", depending on the situation, Body 4 /= Agility 4 /= Charisma 4. After all, if it were that "simple", you should see an equal distribution of players in your group looking to have Charisma, Intuition, Edge, &c at 4 as Body / Strength at 4 (or higher.

The fact of the matter is that the players in this group seem to view high body / strength as far more important than Agility, Charisma, Intuition. This is nothing to do with math, but play style.

Look at that Ork vs Elf, again. You say that the Elf is a weaker race. Ever build a mage with a penchant for summoning? At that point, 2 free points of charisma is a god-send. And trust me, the guy running around with 3 or 4 bound spirits scares me more than a troll with Body 10, Strength 10, Charisma 2, Willpower 3.

It's called the spirits Fear him (he fails to resist, with his average Willpower, if the Spirit's semi-competent). At that point, he has to make a Charisma + Willpower roll just to face the elf's spirits. That's when the elf comes out of hiding & intimidates him (with +2 for outnumbering the subject, +2 for wielding obvious magic, -2 b/c the troll is carrying an obvious weapon). The troll resists with Charisma + Intimidation, of which he has none, so he's throwing 1 die, assuming no negative modifiers (and if he's feared, I'm imposing some). Congratulations, your big scary troll has been intimidated into surrendering by an elf with Body 2, Strength 2 and just a little fore-thought.

There is no "simple math" to building a 3-dimensional character capable of handling varied and complex problems. There is only simple math if you focus on one aspect of the game at the expense of all others. Have these guys ever met a Control Thoughts spell?

What about Stunbolt? So much for their armor and body, it's 100% willpower, both on resistance and the damage track affected. Once they're one-shotted a few times by that Body 1, Strength 1, Reaction 6, Intuition 6, Magic 6 (see, math builds one-trick ponies, dangerous one-trick ponies, but none-the-less, this guy is going before your trolls and orks) combat mage, they'll think twice before assuming that everything boils down to two stats.