[Xenon]

Most of the text in Edit File is a direct copy pasta from SR5.


Also, depending on your reading it might possible also be read in more than one way:

• You may perform a continuous edit to edit out your teammates from a live stream directly in real-time as they spend several seconds walking pass a camera
• You may perform a continuous edit to edit out more than a small detail from an already existing video feed file, for example to edit out your teammates from a video feed as they earlier spend several seconds walking pass a camera

[ZeroSum]

First of all.
I was replying to ZeroSum that said that the description of Edit File action didn't mention that it applies to 'Files'. To me it seem to be obvious that the description of Edit File action mention that it applies to Files (and I felt it strange that ZeroSum somehow missed this), but rather than arguing my case I decided to just quote two passes from the rules. Bold emphasis was mine.

You may have misread or misinterpreted my statement, then, or I did not make myself clear enough. I state that that nowhere in the description does it say that Edit File "only" applies to files. The video feed being the example that stands out; while one could argue that video feeds are files, I think Banshee's comments on this particular topic is a good indication of how one might think the text says one thing, but it is in fact open for interpretation.

Secondly.
While SR5 made a point of being a lot more distinct on this point, even SR6 differentiate between four different Icons. Persona Icons, Device Icons, Host Icons.... and File Icons. In addition to the four Icon types SR6 also talk about 'networks' ('networks' that are either stationary - WANs, or mobile - PANs).

• Send Message and Trace Icon actions seem to work on Personas (does not seem to work on Files, although Files can be attached in a message)
• Control Device, Format Device, Reboot Device actions seem to work on Devices (does not seem to work on Files)
• Enter Host action seem to work on Hosts (does not seem to work on Files)
• Backdoor Entry, Brute Force, Probe actions seem to work on 'networks' (does not seem to work on Files)
• Crack File, Encrypt File, Set Data Bomb... and Edit File actions seem to work on Files (and does not seem to work on Personas, Hosts, Devices or 'networks').

While I certainly agree with these statements, I was once again merely pointing out the ambiguity of the language used and which the author himself makes a comment on below.

As for the size or location of an icon; perhaps we simply have different opinions on how the matrix looks like, conceptually.

Let me illustrate one way to look at it, then you tell me if there is anything in my description you disagree with. Sound fair? Also, thank you for engaging with me on this, I do appreciate the opportunity to explain my understanding of the situation at hand, as I think the highly theoretical nature of the Matrix is one reason why the Matrix in general elicits so many questions.

Let's say that Zero the Decker has just gotten out of bed. He fires up his cyberdeck and opens up an AR connection to the Matrix through his cyberjack and deck.

Contention 1: Is the cyberdeck and cyberjack visible as distinct devices in the Matrix, or are they subsumed by Zero's persona?

I'm working off of the assumption that the Persona does not take the place of the device(s) you use to form it on. However, these devices would most certainly be part of your PAN, as per page 173: "the PAN is the primary means of displaying the persona, or icon, of the user". So what does this actually look like?

Contention 2: If Zero's partner, let's call them Sum, was to observe Zero in AR at this point in time, what would they see? What about in VR (assuming they have both just formed their personas and switched to VR)?

My assumption is that the Persona of Zero would show up in AR roughly in the same physical location as the devices forming his PAN, so if you were looking at the person Zero with your AR enhanced eyes, you would likely see his physical form and his Persona icon. This is where things get murky.

If the devices have their own separate icons in AR, you would look at Zero and see his physical shape, the Persona icon (I would personally think this would be hovering over or near his real body) and the two device icons (assume they are both wireless enabled and not running silent and this time) hovering somewhere near their physical location

Personally, I am of the opinion that each device having their own, discrete icons would get real messy real quick. Instead, what page 173 further tells us is that "programs and devices attached to a PAN appear as smaller representations of their normal icons, carried by their personas."

To my mind, this means that instead of seeing the cyberjack and cyberdeck icons as unique icons in AR, they are attached, or "carried" as the book says, by the Persona of which they are part of. To explain how I think this looks, the best example I can come up with is "thumbnails". I see the Persona icon having little thumbnails of the enabled, non-silent icons, attached to it, and an observer could expand the Persona icon to see more details.

Hopefully that explains how I view AR and why I think "location" matters.

In VR, I think visibility is much the same except with the obvious caveat that you see VR different from someone else. Zero might see Sum as an angelic being sleeping on a cloud (their persona) while playing a harp (a sound file icon, indicating that they are listening to music).

Sum, on the other hand, might see Zero as a Knight in black plate armour, sword and shield at the ready (persona icon with full ASDF attributes (sword, blackened armor, a leather wrapped book, and the shield, respectively).

In either case, I think it is important to know if you see each device as a separate, unique icon separate from the Persona, or if you instead see one Persona icon with multiple "thumbnails" tacked on to them.

This brings us to the last part of my vision for right now; icons that are running silent.

Contention 3: if an icon is running silent, does it disappear from view in the Matrix completely?

It would obviously behoove Zero to run his deck silently as it is illegal to own this piece of gear, especially for filthy SINners like him. In game terms he rolls to hide the Icon of the deck, and the icon disappears from view. In AR, this would mean either the device icon, or the thumbnail representation of it that appears as if carried by his Persona. In VR, this could mean that the black armor turns shining silver, while his sword is replaced with a lantern.

In either case, part of the shared hallucination that we call the Matrix has been affected.

This is a pretty simple example, but I hope this helps illustrate why I think it matters whether device and file  icons are "carried" by their persona, or if they always appear as discrete icons "near" their physical location.

Personally, I just can't comprehend how AR and VR would work if you literally saw every single device with a Matrix connection, every file of every shape and form you can imagine, every data stream and every host within 100m of you. It would be like looking at the stars in the night sky, except wrapped tightly all around you.

I therefore imagine AR looking mostly like reality, where each Persona carries the visible device and file icons as thumbnails that are part of the overall persona icon. This, to me, is part of the filtering that previous editions described, and I think it matters because this will influence how hackers see the digital world.

Now, the above examples only deal with icons in close proximity. What if Zero has a wireless vehicle and decides to add it to his PAN.

Contention 4: what happens to an icon when it is joined to a PAN that is far away from the physical location of each other?

This is tricky; in AR you would think that you would look at the car and see a device icon, but if the text on page 173 is taken literally and the icon instead appears as if carried by the Persona, you would need to spot the persona to see the vehicle. Alternatively, the device icon is both simultaneously near the physical location of the vehicle AND a thumbnail on the persona.

In summary, I think the lack of a fundamental agreement and understanding of how the Matrix looks and feels like is why there are so many questions around how it works at a basic level.

Combat is easy; your opponent is over there. Shoot him. But just like in the matrix, your opponent can hide, and this is where we run into problems; I think we can both more easily agree that when a character uses a hide action in the real world they break line of sight and try to remain hidden. But there is no such easy reference point for the Matrix, and people will have different views and interpretations of what, precisely, the Matrix looks like. And I think this is the root of the issue.

[penllawen]

I hate to break it to you Banshee, but the video feed is right in the Edit File Action description.  It isn't an example, it is the rule itself...

Huh!? I don't remember writing it that way, well either I got talked into it or it was added later then. 😉

Does anyone know the karma award for “successfully rules lawyered the author”? 

[Xenon]

For now I will give answers based upon how it worked in SR5.

Contention 1: Is the cyberdeck and cyberjack visible as distinct devices in the Matrix, or are they subsumed by Zero's persona?

In previous edition a wireless enabled cyberdeck that nobody is 'using' would have a device icon of its own, which probably look like a miniature cyberdeck of sorts. When its user for example switch from his commlink to his cyberdeck (by rebooting both devices in the process) the icon of the cyberdeck will never come online, instead what will come online is a humanoid shaped avatar (his matrix persona). When his commlink is booting up (but not being 'used' since he or she is now using his or her cyberdeck instead) it will have a device icon (which will probably look like a commlink or other communication device of sorts).

If the persona is attacked with matrix damage then it will be the cyberdeck that will 'soak' the damage.

So what does this actually look like?

A persona icon looks like a sentient being of sorts. Size wise it can be as small as a dwarf or as big as a troll. Most people have an avatar that resembles themselves, but photo shopped. But it can be pretty much anything. A robot. A ninja. A dwarf. An orc. A miniature dragon. A smurf. A surfer. A police officer. A warewolf.

was to observe Zero in AR

So AR is when you are not in VR.
You can experience it in many different ways.

In its most basic form you could look at the image link (monitor) of the commlink by just holding it in front of you. Using the touch screen and listening via ear buds. This is how people interacted with the matrix back in 2019.

Or you could have screens in front of your eyes, such as contacts or glasses with an image link (or an implanted image link either as an enhancement to your natural eye or as cybereyes). And instead of touching your commlink you can use an AR glove. This is how people interacted with the matrix in earlier editions and some still did in SR5.

Or you could have a direct neural interface (by wearing trodes or by implanting a cyberdeck, commlink or control rig) which let you interface directly with your commlink and the matrix around you, without devices such as AR gloves etc. If your commlink also have a sim module then you not only experience AR by seeing, touching and hearing. You can also smell and taste the matrix. Super AR.

what would they see?

AR is when you are not in VR.
You see the real world and depending on how you access the matrix you can get an augmented reality overlay on-top of the real world.
This is a great representation on how it could look like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs

It seem as if you can choose how much you wish to filter out. That you can choose the 'transparency' you wish to have on the matrix overlay. Maybe Sum will see Zero's real physical body with his matrix overlay matrix persona just as a shimmering outline or maybe Sum turn it to 11 and the matrix persona of Zero will fully fill the view of Sum and fully block the actual physical appearance of Zero.

What about in VR

If you switch to VR then everything goes black as the real world fades away. As you open your eyes the 'world' will look very different depending on which grid you are connected to.

If you connect to Ares global grid then the ground will become is a plain of green fields, unpaved roads with wagon routs, forests in the distance and most hosts near the ground have a stone foundation rendered beneath them.

If you instead connect to the AZGrid then you will be transported to a pseudo-history of Aztechnology's creation where the ground looks like the ancient Aztec cities in their prime with hosts adding ziggurauts to the landscape. The edges of the cities look like rainforests and mountains but cannot be reached, simply holding their place in the distance no matter how you move towards them.

Saeder-Krupp ûberwelt have a theme of 1990 Berlin, complete with fresh scars of a torn-down wall and hosts sit inside the buildings lining the streets... while the Neonetwork looks like a sprawling cityscape with connected hosts filling the city's skyscrapers.

Sum and Zero might join the matrix via different grids but Sum will still see his partner Zero's Matrix Avatar (which might look like Zero himself or however Zero designed his persona).

No matter the grid the connected to they can move freely in any direction. There is no real concept of 'distance' in the matrix. There is also no gravitational law in the matrix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB-JzPBJalA

Contention 3: if an icon is running silent, does it disappear from view in the Matrix completely?

By default most people automatically filter out silent running icons (and file icons and data streams and you group most wireless enabled devices on a person together into one PAN icon) but if you are interested in just looking for silent running icons then you can filter out everything that is not running silent.

in SR5 you only need a single hit on a matrix perception test to notice every single silent running icon in your vicinity, that the silent running icons are out there are actually as obvious as a neon sign or a running crowd would be for physical perception.

Actually spotting each individual silent running icon (after you are aware of its presence) is however resolved with an opposed test.

In game terms he rolls to hide the Icon of the deck, and the icon disappears from view.

If you wish to spot the icon of a device in SR5 you take a matrix perception test. If the device is running silent then it get to oppose the test. If not and within 100 meters then spotting is automatic.

If a car is parked down the street you take a matrix perception test to spot its icon. If it is running silent then it get to oppose the test. If not and within 100 meters then spotting is automatic.

The illegal Hide action is an action you take if some already spotted you and you wish to become un-spotted. This didn't work if the target already had a mark (access) on the device.

In SR6 it does not seem as if you can set a single device on silent running mode..? In SR6 it seem as if you set your whole PAN to silent running mode (you switch your commlink, or whatever data processing device you are using to access the matrix with, to silent running mode). And that a hacker that spot your 'network' actually spot all your devices same as if he gain access on your 'network' actually gain access to all the devices and the files in the network.

Personally, I just can't comprehend how AR and VR would work if you literally saw every single device with a Matrix connection, every file of every shape and form you can imagine, every data stream and every host within 100m of you. It would be like looking at the stars in the night sky, except wrapped tightly all around you.

Every wireless enabled device in the entire world (not just within 100 meters) have a matrix icon associated with it. And many of them have file icons. On a regular person you probably have many hundreds different icons. Icons that you can spot and interact with no matter where in the world they are located. Most of the time you are not really interested in all this so you tell your commlink to group them all together into one PAN Icon.

If you fly up in the matrix sky (where most of the hosts are located) and look down to the ground (where all the devices are located) you will indeed see a something that look like starts in the night sky. Stretching all the way to the horizon (which would actually represent devices on the other side of the world). Far down below you is the brightest icon of them all. This is your commlink or cyberdeck you used to access the grid with. Further away from your device icons get more dim and start to flickering, making them harder to spot (noise due to distance).

Now, the above examples only deal with icons in close proximity. What if Zero has a wireless vehicle and decides to add it to his PAN.

'Virtual distance' doesn't really mean anything in the matrix. It doesn't really matter if the icon appears to be close to the actual vehicle or close to the matrix persona of Zero.

In SR5 you could always spot your own devices (or devices you had access to) no matter where in the world they are located or if they are running silent or not. Zero would always spot the device icon of his vehicle. No matter where in the physical world it is located. And no matter if it is slaved to his device or not.

This is tricky; in AR you would think that you would look at the car and see a device icon, but if the text on page 173 is taken literally and the icon instead appears as if carried by the Persona, you would need to spot the persona to see the vehicle

If Sum is aware of the vehicle that Zero owns (maybe because he is physically looking at the wireless enabled car) then Sum would just take a matrix perception test to spot its device icon. If the vehicle is running silent then it get to oppose the test. If not and within 100 meters of Sum (no matter how far away from Zero it is and no matter if it is slaved to Zero or not) then spotting would be automatic.

In SR6 it seem as if spotting is always automatic, except if the entire PAN is running silent. In that case you need to take a matrix perception test to spot the entire PAN (and with it all the devices attached to the PAN).

Combat is easy; your opponent is over there. Shoot him.

Not really harder in the matrix (unless you decide to make it harder).

Your opponent is over there. Data spike him.

If your opponent is hiding. Matrix perception test to spot him. Your opponent is over there. Data spike him.




SR6 p. 178 Running Silent
Sometimes, a user will cut off all publicly available information and only respond to specific queries, rendering them largely invisible to the Matrix. Their wireless signal and PAN still exist—they just have to be found. A user can run silent by simply switching modes on their commlink or deck. They can be detected by an Opposed Matrix Perception test as described above. Making a Matrix Perception test to find someone running silent is a typically a Major Action, but if performed by a runner with a cyberdeck, cyberjack, or a Resonance attribute, it is a Minor Action.

[ZeroSum]

I mean... I appreciate all the time and effort it must have taken to gather all those quotes, but  you yourself said it best; that's all based on SR5 rules which we know differ from SR6.

So what was the point in asking me about how I think the Matrix in SR6 looks if you were just going to copy-paste a lot of SR5 material, especially considering the discussion clearly revolvs around the SR6 ruleset?

While I get that this is a rules forum, you invited the topic of trying to understand another point of view. I can't say I see much of an actual rsponse in your last post, other than "this is what it was like in the past edition" and one note about running silent applying to a PAN and not a device.

Fair point on that last one, though; Deckers will need to carry a spare commlink if they are running silent, it seems, but since you can't form your persona on two devices the automatic assumption if anyone were to look in your "direction" is that you are either not using wireless (weirdo) or you are hiding...

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Well the value in "how it worked in 5e" is that we can safely assume that it's still true, unless we hear something that contradicts it.  There was no event between 5e and 6we that changed how the matrix works, afterall.*

Of course, that being said, the Blackout is the big 6we plot kicker-off-er... so who knows.  We'll have to see when the plot books begin to come.

[Xenon]

Reason I used SR5 as reference is because I spend more time than most reading through that material as well as discussing it with freelancers. It is a good starting point to come from.

Next step is to go through the SR6 ruleset and take note of everything that is different. So, now lets do that :-)

(but here I will need help since I don't 100% know all the rules yet and some of the conclusions I will arrive to in SR6 might or might not be correct).


Matrix Perception (Electronics + Intuition) can be used for four different activities;

• Matrix Search - Searching the matrix, same as SR5 but now labeled as an "Extended test" with a 10 minute interval. Unclear what the target number is though, do you just keep rolling until you run out of dice and use the final number of hits to see how far on the Legwork Result table on p.50 you got (not very likely), is it intended to be resolved as a simple test that take 10 minutes and number of hits will be used on the table (maybe, or even most likely if you ask me) or that the player declare the threshold of hidden information he is trying to find according to the legwork table on p. 50 and then resolve it as an extended test (maybe, but reaching 10 hits for "Deep secrets others actively try to hide" on an extended test is actually not very difficult)
• Observe in Detail - Same in SR5 but unlike SR5 this seem to always be opposed by Willpower + Sleaze of the target(!). Unlike SR5 you also no longer play "20-questions" where you get to ask a question per hit, instead you get layered information based on net hits. Unclear how many hits required to spot a data bomb (will you notice it on a tie, 1 net hit or 2 net hits?), but it could also mean that you would take a specific matrix perception test just to scan the file for data bombs (in which case you probably just need a tie to spot it, 1 hit to find out the rating of the bomb and 2 hits to find out what the effect will be if it happen to go off). In SR5 you used one of your hits on file icon to ask if it have a data bomb. Change Icon action will not change the result of this action (was same in SR5). With a tie you can perceive the item’s icon (in SR5 this was a single hit on a simple test for icons not in your vicinity and automatic for icons in your vicinity and opposed if hiding). Maybe SR6 is only talking about spotting a specific file icon that is hidden with camouflage or a specific device or persona hidden with phantasm or a specific 'network' that is currently running silent. You don't seem to need a test to spot an icon in the vicinity that is not hiding, but it is unclear if you need to take a test to spot an icon not in the vicinity that is not hiding (this was a simple test with a threshold of 1 in SR5, almost impossible to fail unless there was a lot of uncompensated noise to consider). With 1 net hit you get basic information (such as device rating, name of the device or icon). With 2 net hits you get advanced information (individual attribute ratings - which might or might not mean you need 2 net hits to find out that the target 'network' belong to a hacker, programs it is running - which you can then crash with the Crash Program action... but you can also understand which programs that are running by actually see them in action). Additional hits is up to GM. 5 net hits on this test seem to be needed to notice that a 'network' in fact belong specifically to a Technomancer (rather than a Decker), but the wording make this ambiguous ("Technomancers can experience AR, VR, and hot-sim with no extra gear, and they are difficult to spot in the Matrix, typically requiring 5 hits on a Matrix Perception test (p. 178) to be seen"). [EDIT! - this was addressed in Errata]. This is also used to spot specific persona or device hidden by Phantom or a specific File hidden by Camouflage.
• Find silent running 'network' - In SR5 individual devices or personas could run silent and you tried to spot individual devices or individual personas. In SR6 it seem as if your entire 'network' is running silent or it isn't. Also it say something about 'networks' that have a Sleaze attribute (which might or might not be of importance). "This test can also be used to attempt to find a persona with a Sleaze attribute that is running silent" [EDIT! - this was addressed in Errata]. A stealth tag oppose this test with 10 dice as a dice pool of its own. Also, if a hacker successfully use the Hide action then we need to take a Matrix Perception test to re-spot his 'network', but if we already have User or Admin access to his 'network' then it seem as if we will automatically spot him even if he successfully used a Hide action (which was similar in SR5, you always spotted an icon you had a mark on, but in SR5 you could look at your icon for marks and you could attack the marks with the Erase Mark action which was the same as removing access - in SR6 we cannot see if someone have access to our 'network' or not and we also cannot remove this access which mean if someone gain access to our 'network' then we cannot ever hope to hide - without perhaps rebooting the 'gateway' of the 'network' - the cyberdeck/cyberjack, commlink or rcc). This is a Major action unless you are using a cyberdeck or a cyberjack or a living persona or if you are patrol IC - in which case it is a Minor action
• Resist matrix 'illusions' - An unopposed matrix perception test against a set threshold set by the complex form is used to resist/see through both Mirrored Persona and Resonance Veil (same in SR5, but the mirrored persona complex form is new).

Running Silent - for reference;
Sometimes, a user will cut off all publicly available information and only respond to specific queries, rendering them largely invisible to the Matrix. Their wireless signal and PAN still exist—they just have to be found. A user can run silent by simply switching modes on their commlink or deck. They can be detected by an Opposed Matrix Perception test as described above.

(I read this is as if it is the entire personal area network which that will run silent, not single devices as it was in SR5)

[Michael Chandra]

 It's best to ignore SR5 because we should treat this as standalone rule wise unless there's a really unclear case. Otherwise we can't help new people figure it out.

[Xenon]

I would probably rule it like this;


Wish to search the matrix for intel / legwork?
Simple Electronics + Intuition test with a duration of 10 minutes.
Net hits are used for the Legwork table on p. 50



Make sure file is not trapped with bomb?
Opposed Electronics + Intuition vs. Willpower (of data bomb maker) + Sleaze (if owner of data bomb have one)
Tie. Bomb present (yes/no)?
1 net hit. Rating of bomb (if bomb is present)
2 net hits. Is bomb set to delete file (yes/no)? (if bomb is present)



Wish to scan a persona for details
Opposed Electronics + Intuition vs. Willpower (of user) + Sleaze (only living persona or if generated on a cyberdeck)
Tie. Persona (or rather the whole 'network') is spotted (if running silent)
1 net hit. Rating of commlink, cyberjack, RCC or Living Persona
2 net hits. A/S rating + D/F ratings. (A/S ratings will indicate persona is currently using living persona or cyberdeck)
5 net hits. Is Living Persona (yes/no)?



You are aware of device, but for some reason cannot see its specific device icon?

Because Device is slaved to 'network' that is currently hidden from you
Opposed Electronics + Intuition vs. Willpower (of 'network' owner) + Sleaze (if 'network' have one)
Tie. Device (or rather the whole 'network') is spotted

Because Device is being hidden by phantom complex form
Opposed Electronics + Intuition vs. Net hits of phantom complex form
Tie. Specific Device is spotted

Because Device is wireless disabled
Matrix perception will automatically fail
Device cannot be spotted in the matrix.

[Xenon]

It's best to ignore SR5 because we should treat this as standalone rule wise unless there's a really unclear case. Otherwise we can't help new people figure it out.

Right now I think we are all trying to figure out how they work in SR6, and at least for me (that know SR5 matrix rules by heart) it is far easier to compare differences and then draw conclusions than starting from scratch. But I agree. People are coming here to find out how rules work in SR6, not how they might have worked in SR5.

Going forward I will focus on my answers towards what can be found in SR6 (and keep my SR5 notes in a separate medium).

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I do like the notion of spotting by PAN instead of spotting by device.  Adds some risk/reward to the team slaving your drek over to the specialist: yeah he can defend against spotting tests better, but if he fails the whole team just got spotted...

[Iron Serpent Prince]

This comes back to the eternal question of "what do I see in AR/VR"?

The above could be read either as:
1. When a device icon becomes part of a PAN, it is subsumed by the persona and appears as a smaller representation of itself being carried by the persona.
or
2. Devices that are part of a PAN appear both on their devices as usual, and as a small representation of itself carried by the persona.

This has been (probably deliberately) left vague for all editions of Shadowrun.

I find it frustrating myself, as it leads to long winded discussions as individual tables figure out what all happens for their instance of Shadowrun, and does not hing to help the same discussions from happening between tables.

For example if you are in in Seattle and doing Matrix stuff on the DeeCee grid, "where" is your Persona?
This was more important in 5e, where there was the written rule "you automatically spot every Icon in a 100m radius" (which doesn't appear to have made it to 6e - for better or worse), but it can very much play a part in Sixth World.

Does your Persona "move" to DeeCee?  Is the DeeCee grid "pulled" to your deck?

In broad strokes, it doesn't matter too much.  In trying to comprehend how the game world works it is pretty darn important.

My personal opinion is that a device in a PAN "spawns" a second - smaller - Icon when the device leaves an indeterminate radius from the Persona that is holding it.
Example:  If you have your Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman in your PAN, after you step - say - 1m away from it it reverts to having it's normal Icon again and has a smaller copy in your Persona.

The only reason I think that is because I find it hard to fathom that the Horseman would be Icon-less when parked two blocks away while you are having dinner in a restaurant.

But I'm not sure this is the case, and certainly not at all tables.

[penllawen]

This has been (probably deliberately) left vague for all editions of Shadowrun.

I find it frustrating myself, as it leads to long winded discussions as individual tables figure out what all happens for their instance of Shadowrun, and does not hing to help the same discussions from happening between tables.
...
In broad strokes, it doesn't matter too much.  In trying to comprehend how the game world works it is pretty darn important.

It bugs me a lot. Because it makes it hard to visualise Matrix stuff, it makes it hard for GMs to describe Matrix stuff. And while I support the Matrix rules being abstract, the more abstract they are, the more they need careful grounding in a clearly written narrative reality because GMs and players have nothing else to go on to. In a lot of ways, I feel like the Matrix rules are unmoored, ungrounded, kinda rootless. They exist as a set of mechanics but they don't gel together because -- for as many times as I've read and re-read 5e / Kill Code / Data Trails - I have no mental model for what the world is to put the rules into. And I think it's a real failing in the books.

The Astral plane suffers a bit from this too (citation: the argument here recently about whether a projecting mage can tell two types of gun apart.) GMs can wing it in the real world, can fill in the blanks, because we all have decent ideas of guns work (even if that's more from films that reality). But Shadowrun's Matrix isn't particularly like any other real-world or fictional representation of computers or VR.

I'd really appreciate an entire chapter of one of these Matrix books covering nothing but "this is what a person walking down the street sees", "this is how a cop in VR would scan your stuff", "this is how wageslave offices look and how wageslaves do their work." I think it's sad we've had not one but two Matrix splatbooks for 5e and so much still goes unsaid. Hell, if 6e gets that, I'd buy that splatbook just for that chapter.

(One of my many Shadowrun slowly progressing side projects is writing such a chapter, for my own table.)

[ZeroSum]

@Iron Serpent Prince and @penllawen
Thank you for putting my feelings into words. I have found it difficult to express how I feel about the abstract nature of the Matrix, and I think your two posts are excellent examples of just how disconnect the "feel" of the abstract Matrix can be.

I think the Matrix chapter in SR6 makes a whole lot more sense than in any previous edition, and I am extremely grateful to the author for spending his personal time on these boards elaborating on or explaining the details of some of the murkier and abstract rules.

I will agree with both of the two previous posts that more concrete examples and fiction could do wonders to ground the setting in a paradigm of how the Matrix can work conceptually, while still providing enough freedom for tables to go wild with their imaginations and have fun with it.

[penllawen]

I think the Matrix chapter in SR6 makes a whole lot more sense than in any previous edition, and I am extremely grateful to the author for spending his personal time on these boards elaborating on or explaining the details of some of the murkier and abstract rules.

Hear, hear. I don’t want my previous post to sound like I’m down on Banshee’s contributions. I think his 6e rules are - by a wide margin - the best Matrix rules Shadowrun has ever had. I think they show a depth of understanding and an attention to detail that — were it only shared by the rest of 6e — would have given us a new edition that was really something special. I appreciate the time and effort he puts in here. And he even suggested himself that he’d have loved to include the sort of deeper, more detailed fluff I’d like to see, but was restricted by the page count. Which I can understand.