[ikarinokami]

The simple answer to all this...

RG1: NO ACTION PHASE
ATTACK LIMIT
The idea of keeping the attacks to one Simple Action
per Action Phase was based on keeping the action
spread out across all the players and keeping combat
moving. If a gamemaster wants to increase the number
of shots a character can take on their turn, and thus the
number of rolls and amount of table time they get to
use, this rule option can be used to ignore the “One Attack
action per Action Phase” attached to most ranged
attack tests. This optional rule eliminates the limitations
on the Simple Actions that can be taken. It’s highly recommended
that if this option is taken, Cumulative Recoil
should be given extra attention, as the modifiers
will add up fast and act as a balance to nonstop shooting.
This rule has no effect on melee combat, as melee
attacks require Complex Actions

I'm not exactly sure how this answers the question?

[ScytheKnight]

If it's an offensive action, be it damage or impairing their ability to fight, it's an attack.

Since Missions FAQ had been mentioned, it does say to not to try and get cute about it.

Once we establish that, then we establish one attack action per round, if you want beyond that, well there's the alternate rule for you.

[Whiskeyjack]

Saying you are attacking the ground instead of the person is just circumventing the rules in my book and I wouldn't allow that either.

Considering how the rules explicitly discuss aiming at a non-moving point (just like with AoEs and scatter), your statement is not terribly convincing. Your preference of "you shouldn't be able to attack the ground" is not the RAW, in fact, it's the opposite of the RAW.

If it's an offensive action, be it damage or impairing their ability to fight, it's an attack.

I'm guessing the rules don't actually contemplate this, since they're mono-focused on guns and maybe reckless casting targeted spells, but the rules not contemplating a common situation is hardly surprising at this point.

[ScytheKnight]

In combat it says I can only make one attack action. What exactly does this mean?
It means don’t get cute and try to play word games. Barring using the Multiple Attacks Free
Action (in which you split your dice pool to attack multiple targets), you cannot take a second offensive
action towards another character during your pass. This means throwing grenades, shooting guns, casting
spells (recklessly or otherwise), spitting in their cheerios, spiking their tea with arsenic, or anything else
that could be construed as a physical or mental attack in any way, shape or form. However, you may take
a Free Action to cast disparaging remarks at their mothers if you so choose.
If you’re not certain if an action would be an attack, well, it probably is. But ask yourself if they
used it against you would it be an attack? And if you’re still not certain, ask your Gamemaster. However,
be warned, if you try and argue with him he is authorized to smack you upside the head with the
Shadowrun, Fifth Edition book.

[Reaver]

Books are expensive. Argumentive players' heads are hard....


I use a 2x4. No chance of damaging a good book.

[ikarinokami]

I wouldn't consider, mana static, ice sheet or smoke grenades to be cute, because those spells don't attack a person, they alter the environment. I with everyone on the others, but i'm not convince about these 3, because it would create some absurd situations because they alter the environment and as a result tend to persists. so if someone walks into your existing altered environment are you considered to have attack them, that doesn't seem correct to me.

[ScytheKnight]

What is it with the rules lawyers lately?

You cast Ice Sheet, it's designed to make people lose balance and fall over, that seems a fairly clear offensive action. So if you recklessly cast it you're not able to take another offensive action.

Once the spell is in effect someone enters the ice sheet area and fails their gymnastics check and falls prone. On your turn you can attack because you haven't taken an offensive action that round.

Maybe if people would use some common and stop looking for every BS loophole they can find the rules might become a little clearer.

Seriously 1/2 the "Waaagh the rules are badly written" stuff I see is because people are trying to find excuses to pull of shenanigans.

[PiXeL01]

How about this then: you may only cast 1 offense spell and 1 beneficial spell per action.
And yes I know attacking the ground is basically how you use AoE with scatter effects, but as I wrote above I would deny anyone targeting is such a way that a target got hit twice. Should that be the case through scatter then maybe I simply use the most powerful attack.

As for environment altering effects, given the push and pull I have witnessed above I would go with what I wrote in the beginning of this post:

You may cast 1 offensive/debuffing and 1 buffing/beneficial spell simultaneously. Environmental spells would be included under offensive in this case.
Any grenade would be considered offensive smoke or otherwise. 

[ikarinokami]

What is it with the rules lawyers lately?

You cast Ice Sheet, it's designed to make people lose balance and fall over, that seems a fairly clear offensive action. So if you recklessly cast it you're not able to take another offensive action.

Once the spell is in effect someone enters the ice sheet area and fails their gymnastics check and falls prone. On your turn you can attack because you haven't taken an offensive action that round.

Maybe if people would use some common and stop looking for every BS loophole they can find the rules might become a little clearer.

Seriously 1/2 the "Waaagh the rules are badly written" stuff I see is because people are trying to find excuses to pull of shenanigans.

That's what you would call an absurd result, and if you don't understand why that is, then we just have to agree to disagree.

[ScytheKnight]

What is it with the rules lawyers lately?

You cast Ice Sheet, it's designed to make people lose balance and fall over, that seems a fairly clear offensive action. So if you recklessly cast it you're not able to take another offensive action.

Once the spell is in effect someone enters the ice sheet area and fails their gymnastics check and falls prone. On your turn you can attack because you haven't taken an offensive action that round.

Maybe if people would use some common and stop looking for every BS loophole they can find the rules might become a little clearer.

Seriously 1/2 the "Waaagh the rules are badly written" stuff I see is because people are trying to find excuses to pull of shenanigans.

That's what you would call an absurd result, and if you don't understand why that is, then we just have to agree to disagree.

Sorry but.. I don't even understand anymore what you're even trying to drive at.

[bangbangtequila]

Seriously 1/2 the "Waaagh the rules are badly written" stuff I see is because people are trying to find excuses to pull of shenanigans.

That word was not given enough volume or saliva to show off the true flavour of it. Thanks Sandy Mitchell.

Anyway, I agree. If a guard used it on you, and you would go "whaaaaaat" then don't bother. Double standards destroy fun gaming. Just play instead of trying to be more clever about building a character then planning your runs.

[Reaver]

Good for the Goose, good for the Gander.
And there are WAY more Gander then Geese.

It's simple folks. Ask your self "Would I be Ok facing 3 of <insert whatever changes you want>?". Because, if the GM uses your rules change, THAT is exactly what would/could happen....

[Medicineman]

Exactly
I give my players some leeway for the sake of Awesome or cool Action sequences
but if they ....overdraw the Bow or misuse the leeway I make sure that the NPCs do exactly the same (and they're better at it since they're NPCs)

with an open-minded Dance
Medicienman

[bangbangtequila]

In flat, no, you cannot take multiple attacks without splitting your dice pool. Technically the rules wouldn't like to permit shooting two guns at one fellow, but that invalidates John Woo, and that is just not ok.

There's a great snippet involving a dwarf who only uses dual grenades. That would imply that yes, two hands means two attacks, and it doesn't make sense to allow you to shoot in two directions but not in one.

[Dinendae]

You cast Ice Sheet, it's designed to make people lose balance and fall over, that seems a fairly clear offensive action. So if you recklessly cast it you're not able to take another offensive action.

Honestly, that's going to fall into the realm of personal interpretation really; we're getting into the realm of semantics on what "offensive" is. It modifies the environment yes, but it's not like you made lava appear under them; the spell isn't going to directly damage them itself, although it could lead to a situation where it would be easier to damage an opponent via something that actually does damage. I'm certain that my Missions GM would let it pass, as it is not directly damaging you; in fact I remember Ice Sheet being paired with an actual combat spell. There's no reason to over-think it; just keep it simple.