[Kirito99]

Ok, so Rigger 5.0 is out but saddenly it doesn't have some kind of cheat sheet, like last chapter of data trails. With errata in progress and swarm of  riggers in missions I would like to group in one place all questions in this matter. Hope that someone give us official answers . If you want to add some question, feel free.


Autosoft rating can only be as high as pilot rating for vehicle/drone ?
Can I add a dongle to  RCC ?
If no, can I mod RCC to have sleaze/attack rating and use this as deck ?
Drone has up to eight sensors picked at limit 3 , or sensor limit= sensor capacity ?
Can I use control device to make a check for X same drones in one action? Or It is intended to one device ?
Defense +remote control , how it works ?

[Marcus Gideon]

1) I have never heard anything that said Autosofts can only be as good as the Pilot program. Which would be pretty rough, since almost all vehicles have a Pilot 3 or so, and yet they sell Autosofts up to Rating 6.

2) Technically, the descriptions for both a Cyberdeck and an RCC say that they are like a Commlink, only with more stuff on top. They are capable of everything a Commlink can do, and then some. However, personally I think the Commlink dongles should be reserved expressly for Commlinks (actually I think dongles should go away and die).

3) According to the Mod rules, you could add either Attack or Sleaze to the RCC, but it starts at Rating 1. To raise it any higher would inflict permanent Matrix damage. Overall, it's probably not a good idea to try and make a RCD (Rigger Control Deck). Unless they do say that you can plug a Comm Dongle into it, in which case you could get both stats but it still wouldn't be as good as a real Deck.

4) Core pg 445, Sensors

Sensor array: This sensor package includes up to eight functions listed under Sensor Functions.

So you can install up to 8 different sensors, but they can't be higher than the Sensor 3 rating of the drone. So yes, 8x Rating 3 Sensors.

5) Core pg 238, Control Device

You can use this action to control multiple devices at once. If you are the owner of all devices being commanded and they are all being commanded to do exactly the same thing, taking this action costs nothing extra. Otherwise, you must split your dice pool into a number of groups equal to the number of devices you want to control with a single action.

6) Not sure what the question is here? If you are remotely controlling something, and it needs to defend, then you make the check for it. If you're operating a drone and someone shoots at it, you roll your Reaction + Intuition. If someone is attempting to hack the drone, that's a tough one since you only get to assist if the drone is Slaved. Assuming it is, you roll the drone's or your RCC's Firewall (whichever is better) + the drone's Pilot or your Willpower (whichever is better).

[gradivus]

Autosofts was answered in Rigger 5: on board software is Pilot Rating or less. while RCC is any rating.

Nothing in Rigger 5- the writer who wrote dongles chimed in and said that dongles were never intended for RCCs. Take that with a grain of salt since what writer intended and editor puts out don't always match. However, I'm in the boat that says 'no'. YMMV.

Any device can be modded so yes RCC can get an attack or sleaze attribute. However only being able to have one severely limits your decking abilities...

Drones have a sensor array. Which means you can pick up to 8 functions at rating up to sensor rating.

Not sure what your asking in the last question. By remote controlled do you mean 'jumped in' or slaved to RCC? Pilot + Autosoft [Handling]. if your not jumped in, Reaction + Intuition if your jumped in. However, the minority report version is that it's INT + INT rather than REA + INT because your physical stats should be replaced by mental stats while your in VR: at least 2 Devs disagree with this line of thought. Still not sure if I'm actually answering the question you intended to ask.


Edit: since Marcus and I were evidently typing at the same time and he beat me to the save button. Rigger 5 pg 127 A Pilot program may not run an autosoft of a higher Rating than itself (meaning a Rating 3 Pilot may run an Autosoft with a Rating of 1, 2, or 3, but not 4 or higher).
When using a rigger command console, the console may run a higher...

[ScytheKnight]

1: There's no ambiguity I'm afraid.

A Pilot program may not run an autosoft of a higher
Rating than itself (meaning a Rating 3 Pilot may run an
Autosoft with a Rating of 1, 2, or 3, but not 4 or higher).
When using a rigger command console, the console
may run a higher-Rating autosoft and share that with the
drone, allowing it to exceed its normal capabilities.

[gradivus]

1: There's no ambiguity I'm afraid.

A Pilot program may not run an autosoft of a higher
Rating than itself (meaning a Rating 3 Pilot may run an
Autosoft with a Rating of 1, 2, or 3, but not 4 or higher).
When using a rigger command console, the console
may run a higher-Rating autosoft and share that with the
drone, allowing it to exceed its normal capabilities.

LOL- evidently SkytheKnight and I were also typing at the same time.

[gradivus]

Sad but true- instead of making RCCs better so that more people bought them, they decided to nerf drones so that RCC became more needed.

[Marcus Gideon]

If you're gonna do it that way, shouldn't it be based off the Device Rating or the Data Processing of the RCC then?

If I paid 21,000¥ for a Lockheed Optic-X2 and it can only support up to Rating 3 software.

And yet I can spend 1,400¥ on DR 1 / DP 3 "Scratch-Built Junk" that can run Rating 6 software, then there's a problem here.

You're saying I can literally weld a toaster to a coffee pot and run better software than the "patented signature-limiting ... favorite of intelligence agencies". What if I weld a coffee pot to the side of my Steel Lynx? Can it run better software then? =)

[Kirito99]

So, to the unsolved questions

4) Sensor function is limited to p.446 core book or can I have in drone functions like low-light, thermo or other typical enhancements that I have in electronical devices? I have this in premade drone for "free" or must I have additional purchase?
Additional question- I heard that I can use electronic warfare and perception in same manner with sensors, true ?
Secondly - to detect someone with sensors I must make a roll and have hit(s). So, If I make sensor test and acheive no hits drone is effectively blind ?

5) remote control- RAW this is mess. I don't have to split pool to remote control (gunnery ) for example six rotodrones ? If that is intended , why bother with "swarm" program for Rigger 5.0 and rules for "pack" ?  I suppose that remote control action should be clarified to issue command and manual operations, but I accept any reasonable arguments.

6) IMHO remote control is action for free/simple/complex actions , and defense for attack is RAW not action. So I thought that pilot + evasion is correct answer

[Marcus Gideon]

So, to the unsolved questions

4) Sensor function is limited to p.446 core book or can I have in drone functions like low-light, thermo or other typical enhancements that I have in electronical devices? I have this in premade drone for "free" or must I have additional purchase?
Additional question- I heard that I can use electronic warfare and perception in same manner with sensors, true ?
Secondly - to detect someone with sensors I must make a roll and have hit(s). So, If I make sensor test and acheive no hits drone is effectively blind ?

5) remote control- RAW this is mess. I don't have to split pool to remote control (gunnery ) for example six rotodrones ? If that is intended , why bother with "swarm" program for Rigger 5.0 and rules for "pack" ?  I suppose that remote control action should be clarified to issue command and manual operations, but I accept any reasonable arguments.

6) IMHO remote control is action for free/simple/complex actions , and defense for attack is RAW not action. So I thought that pilot + evasion is correct answer

4) The common opinion is that vehicles and drones come with an empty array from the factory. In earlier editions they came pre-loaded with a bunch of cameras and radar and stuff, but so far SR5 hasn't done so. So until we're told otherwise, just assume that you need to buy all the cameras and sensors aftermarket.

5) Control Device wasn't necessarily meant for operating drones, it was meant for operating "devices". So you could use the same action to automatically eject the magazine from all your weapons at once. Or you could use the same action to reboot all your devices at once. Having all your drones converge on a single target and open fire, does seem to be a lot more complex of an action. Even if they're flying in a perfect formation, each drone has to move and angle a little differently. Each one is coming from a slightly different direction. So that's probably why they added the swarm rules.

6) If you are remotely controlling a device, you are suppressing the Pilot program's control. Which means it doesn't automatically do anything anymore, until you relinquish control. That's why you have to roll for defense for it. Otherwise it will just stand there getting shot, waiting for you to tell it what to do.

[Malevolence]

4) The common opinion is that vehicles and drones come with an empty array from the factory. In earlier editions they came pre-loaded with a bunch of cameras and radar and stuff, but so far SR5 hasn't done so. So until we're told otherwise, just assume that you need to buy all the cameras and sensors aftermarket.

Sensor array: This sensor package includes up to eight functions listed under Sensor Functions.

The underlined portion seems to indicate that the functions are included, so you don't have an empty array. Also, considering the level of integration required, I doubt these are modular such that the average Joe could install them after market. There are also no prices listed for most of the sensors (unless you are expecting to pay Rating x 1000 for the array and then Rating x 100 for each function, making a full array cost Rating x 1800, which I'm pretty certain was not the intent). Sadly, we are left without adequate direction from Catalyst, so this is 100% houserule as to what comes in the sensor package for each vehicle, and it likely varies between drones and cars and planes and boats, etc.

[Marcus Gideon]

The prices for sensors are listed on the pages just before the sensor housings. You pay the same cost to install Thermo into your drone or car as you would to install in your glasses or goggles.

And yes, it does say "includes" however even the writers have admitted in other threads that older editions included a listing of what sensors came standard with vehicles. But in SR5 they neglected to reprint that listing, which means either you can go dig up the list from an older book and copy it over, or you can go with the current state of affairs for SR5 which is a blank slate.

None of the older stock options included any sexy things like Thermo anyway, so you'd still be paying for it. All they had was basic radar and cameras for parallel parking. =)

[Herr Brackhaus]

Marcus
No, the price for a single sensor and an array is not the same.

An array costs Rating x 1000 nuyrn, and comes with up to 8 functions included.
A single sensor costs Rating x 100 nuyen.

Both need a housing, and all vehicles come with an array.

Sensors Functions, which goes inside arrays and single sensors, do not have a cost. Vision enhancements like thermographic vision have specific costs and are added to sensor functions like cameras.

[Marcus Gideon]

I said the sensor functions cost the same. The housings vary, but they come empty (unless they errata in the standard list again). Just like when you buy Cyber Eyes or something, you have to pay extra to get Low-Light or Thermo added to them.

So when you walk into a store and say you want a handheld scanner... you have to specify what you want it to do. And then they charge you for the handheld shell, and for each function.

When you go to the dealership and buy a new car, it "should" come with a standard sensor array with pre-defined sensor functions. But the writers admitted they forgot to publish that standard list. So for the moment, you have to walk up to the Parts counter and ask for a Sensor Array shell. Then you have to pay for each of the 8 functions, at the same prices as it would cost to add those functions to glasses or goggles or whatever.

[Malevolence]

Thermo is an enhancement for a camera, the camera itself is the sensor function. So you have this:
Sensor array 3 (¥3,000)
|- Camera (Rating 3, 3 capacity)
|  |-Thermo (¥500, takes 1 capacity)
|  |-Vision Enhance 2 (¥1000, takes 2 capacity)
|- Another sensor function
...


In short, you have a hierarchy that goes like this:
Sensor housing (Drone, vehicle, handheld, wall mounted, armor, most things with capacity)
|-Sensor (array or single)
| |-Sensor Function (Atmosphere, Camera, Microphone, Ultrasound, etc)
| | |-Enhancement (appropriate to sensor, currently only audio and vision for mics and cameras)


A drone should come with a Sensor Array containing 8 functions predefined at the factory. The drone is the housing, the sensor array is the electronics that processes the sensor function inputs. The sensor functions are effectively soldered on to the drone - for example a camera in the front and rear. You can't just pull the camera out and replace it with a microphone anymore than you can do so on your modern day cell phone. The drone is designed and built with specific cutouts and wiring to support the factory installed sensors.


Adding an enhancement to a sensor function (thermo to the camera, for example) increases the availability of an array, meaning that you can't add enhancements after-market (or there are no rules for doing so yet). So to add thermo to that camera would require replacing the entire array. I think that most GMs are allowing the addition of enhancements by paying only the cost of the enhancement (i.e. after market modification of the single sensor), but that is not provided (nor prohibited) by the rules.


It makes sense to me that you could swap one camera for another in a sensor array without having to replace the entire array - assuming that the dimensons are the same. And I don't see any real reason why that simplification can't be made for the sake of simplicity - a rating 3 camera is the same size as another rating 3 camera regardless of the enhancements they have. But swapping one function for another (putting a camera in place of a microphone) can;t be done because the wiring is different, the profile (shape and size) of the sensor itself is different, and the type of data is different which causes the central brain of the array to choke on it.


Also, where have the writers stated that the included arrays in 5E are empty? I've seen GMs allow the players to choose the contents (all the way down to Enhancements), but I've not seen that officially (or semi-officially) addressed by anyone associated with Catalyst.


So, again, there is no price given for adding an atmospheric sensor to an array. Or cyberware scanner, or geiger counter, etc. In order to add an enhancement (thermo, low-light, audio of vision enhancement) you must first have the appropriate sensor function to add it to. So the blank slate model doesn't work unless the sensor functions are free to add and change as the player desires. Which I have seen some people play it that way, though now Rigger 5 makes quite a deal about how integrated sensors are and thus how difficult they are to change.

[Herr Brackhaus]

It's important to distinguish each item though. There are three parts to a functional sensor.

1. The housing/device
2. The type of sensor (array or single, or even multiple single sensors)
3. The sensor function itself.

The first two have a cost, the last one does not. Again, an array has capacity for 8 functions, none of which have a cost unless you choose to add enhancements or some such to them.

ETA:
What Malevolence said about hierarchy is spot on.

As for official rules, there's not a lot when it comes to sensors. But ask yourself this; if a car comes with a Rating 3 Sensor Array but no sensor functions, what good is the array?