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Unsolved Rigger Questions

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Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #15 on: <12-26-15/2025:57> »
Ehh... I would argue with the order there slightly.

The housing is handheld or array. That is where the sensors are housed. Whether that array is mounted to a car, or a drone, or the side of a building, is irrelevant. It costs just as much to build an array you plan to mount to your Humvee, as it does to mount to the side of your hideout.

So you pay for the Rating 3 Housing (Array) for 3,000¥
- Then you add a Rating 3 Camera for 300¥
- - Then you give that camera Thermo for 500¥

In each step; the housing, the sensor, and the additional functions... all have associated costs.

An array says that it has room for up to 8 sensor functions. Which could very well mean that Thermo counts as one of them, and ordinary video counts as another.

As I've said, the writers already admitted that vehicle sensor arrays were supposed to come with pre-defined sensors, which would have explained why you can just walk onto the lot and buy a car and have the Sensor rating mean something. But they forgot to print the list over again for SR5, which is why we're here talking about it now.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #16 on: <12-26-15/2048:59> »
Marcus
If you're arguing that order, you need to go back to page 346 446 of the core rulebook. That part is not up for debate. You pay for (or have one in the case of vehicles) a housing, then you pay for the array or the single sensor(s), then you pick the sensor function. No its, ands, or buts.
« Last Edit: <12-26-15/2137:01> by Herr Brackhaus »

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #17 on: <12-26-15/2126:39> »
Marcus
If you're arguing that order, you need to go back to page 346 of the core rulebook. That part is not up for debate. You pay for (or have one in the case of vehicles) a housing, then you pay for the array or the single sensor(s), then you pick the sensor function. No if's, and's, or but's.
I'm not really sure what your point is here...

Are you saying that you expect the purchase of a sensor array to guarantee that you get 8x sensor functions at absolutely no additional cost?

Rating 3 Sensor array costs 3,000¥

1) I want a Rating 3 Omni-directional Microphone (normally 150¥) with Spatial Recognizer (normally 1,000¥) and Select Sound Filter (normally 250¥). Now... does that count as 1 of the 8 in the array? Or does it count as 2-3?

2) I want a Rating 3 Camera in the front (normally 300¥) with Thermo (normally 500¥) and Low-Light Vision (normally 500¥) and Flare Compensation (normally 250¥). Now... does that count as another 1 of the 8 in the array, leaving me with 6 more to choose? Or does that count as 3-4 leaving me with maybe 1-2 remaining?

3) Just for fun, I'll round it out with things like Atmosphere sensor, and Geiger counter, and Laser range finder. No idea how much those cost, b/c they completely neglected to list prices for those items anywhere in the book.

Now... ignoring the Sensors that are expressly listed in the Sensor Functions chart, which have no prices whatsoever... I've just got myself 2,950¥ worth of camera and microphone into that 3,000¥ array. I suppose we can pretend like the rest fit into the remaining 50¥. But what if that camera and microphone only counted as 1 of the 8. That means I could add those same things 3 more times. That's 11,800¥ worth of cameras and microphones crammed into a 3,000¥ array, which you're trying to tell me covers it all.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #18 on: <12-26-15/2129:57> »
Again, go back to page 446 and read what it says about sensor functions, especially the table on the right hand side. Notice how camera s and microphones are listed as sensor functions

In your examples, everything on the list of sensor functions in that table can be chosen as the part of an array or a single sensor after you've gotten the housing. Anything not listed, such as the audio and video enhancements, would have to be bought separately. The camera and omni-directional Mic would each count as one capacity, just like atmosphere sensor and Geiger counter.

I never said the array covers everything you listed. I specifically said it covers sensor functions, which are explicitly listed.

ETA:
Now that I'm in front of a computer, let me get the relevant sections.

Page 445, Sensors:
Sensors need to be placed in a housing or case of some sort, or built into another device.

Sensors are available in seven ratings (2–8) and two types: single and array.

Sensor array: This sensor package includes up to eight functions listed under Sensor Functions.
Single sensor: This is a sensor that can do only one function listed under Sensor Functions

Page 445, Housings:
Sensors can be put into devices that have capacity. Most vehicles and drones come factory-equipped with a sensor array (at a rating listed with their stats). What you can put your sensor in is limited by the Rating of the sensor (see Sensor Housings table).

Page 446, Sensor Functions (emphasis mine):
All of the functions you can choose for your sensor(s) are listed on the Sensor Functions table. If a function has the same name as an imaging or audio device, it’s the same as its description in those sections, with a Capacity equal to its Rating, and thus is not described here.

Page 446, Sensor Housings table
Lists the maximum rating a housing can hold, greater size = higher rating

Page 446, Sensors
Lists price for handheld housings (capacity 1 through 3) and wall mounted housings (capacity 1 through 6). Also lists price for array and single sensors, which take up 6 and 1 capacity respectively.

Page 446, Sensor Functions
Lists all 13 sensor functions which a sensor can perform. Notice that several of these are not listed on page 446 because they are audio or video devices. These include: Camera, Directional Microphone, Laser Microphone, and Omni-Directional Microphone.

So in your example, you pay the following:

Rating 3 Sensor Array, 3000¥
1. Omni-directional microphone (sensor function, Rating 3, included with array), Spatial Recognizer (1000¥, 2 capacity as per page 445), and Select Sound Filter Rating 1 (250¥, 1 capacity). This fills all the available capacity of the microphone
2. Camera (sensor function, Rating 3, included with array, Thermographic Vision (500¥, 1 capacity as per page 444), Low-Light Vision (500¥, 1 capacity), and Flare Compensation (250¥, 1 capacity). This fills all available capacity of the Rating 3 camera
3. Atmosphere Sensor, Geiger Counter, Laser Range Finder (each 1 capacity, included with array).

This would leave you with 5 out of 8 capacity used, for a total cost of 5500¥. You can certainly add 8 rating 3 cameras to a sensor array, but since facing isn't well implemented in Shadowrun it wouldn't really do you much good in my opinion. You don't even technically need a microphone unless you specifically want enhancements for it, as the camera itself has a microphone as per page 443.
« Last Edit: <12-26-15/2149:01> by Herr Brackhaus »

Rooks

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« Reply #19 on: <12-27-15/0213:19> »
If a paladin needs to be apart of a tac net can it be apart of a RCC or Swarm and give full protection bonuses to other drones?