[Sendaz]

On the plus side, the rules section definitely makes for fun drinking games when you take a shot for each of these conundrums.

[Herr Brackhaus]

DigitalZombie
I'd use the Astral Attributes Table on page 314 for all physical attributes. So Logic replaces Agility, and Intuition replaces Reaction. Sneaking and Attacking would be with Logic as those are both Agility skills.

This is why the core rulebook and subsequent "clarifications" by writers frustrates me; Reaction is confirmed to be used while jumped-in, but intuition is used with sneaking, and logic may be used with Gunnery!? Whaaaaaa?

[DigitalZombie]

On the plus side, the rules section definitely makes for fun drinking games when you take a shot for each of these conundrums.

yeah no thanks, my toxin resistance pool is waay too low for that.

DigitalZombie
I'd use the Astral Attributes Table on page 314 for all physical attributes. So Logic replaces Agility, and Intuition replaces Reaction. Sneaking and Attacking would be with Logic as those are both Agility skills.

Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Im considering myself using Tinkerbells suggestion: highest of physical or mental equivalent stat.

[Adamo1618]

Using your muscles = physical stat

Using your brain (like with trodes or DNI) = mental stat.

Even if you're using a controller, you're using muscles, not pure brainpower.

Agreed. I'd say Intuition is more suitable than Logic, however.

The rules say otherwise.

In all seriousness though, that would be in the area of houserules. The point is that Logic, which is sort of analogous to IQ, would not affect how good I am at FPS games. It would rather be my sense of aim, which Agility is by definition. I mean, all combat skills use it to aim and hit.

[falar]

The point is that Logic, which is sort of analogous to IQ, would not affect how good I am at FPS games. It would rather be my sense of aim, which Agility is by definition. I mean, all combat skills use it to aim and hit.

Once you're jacked in though, your Agility is moot.

Also, this is what Logic is:

The Logic attribute measures the cold, calculating power of your rational mind. Whether you are attempting to repair complicated machinery or patch up an injured teammate, Logic helps you get things right.

This is what Agility is:

Agility measures things like hand-eye coordination, flexibility, nimbleness, and balance.

Given these two, I'd definitely say that Logic is the brain's Agility. And, when you're in VR, you're using your brain entirely instead of your body, I'd go with Logic for Gunnery.

THAT SAID, this is just my ruling.

[Rooks]

The point is that Logic, which is sort of analogous to IQ, would not affect how good I am at FPS games. It would rather be my sense of aim, which Agility is by definition. I mean, all combat skills use it to aim and hit.

Once you're jacked in though, your Agility is moot.

Also, this is what Logic is:

The Logic attribute measures the cold, calculating power of your rational mind. Whether you are attempting to repair complicated machinery or patch up an injured teammate, Logic helps you get things right.

This is what Agility is:

Agility measures things like hand-eye coordination, flexibility, nimbleness, and balance.

Given these two, I'd definitely say that Logic is the brain's Agility. And, when you're in VR, you're using your brain entirely instead of your body, I'd go with Logic for Gunnery.

THAT SAID, this is just my ruling.

Except as Adamo1618 pointed out in another thread

You perform an action through a device you control (or at least control sufficiently), using your commlink or deck like a remote control or video-game controller. The dice pool of any test you make using this action uses the rating of the appropriate skill and attribute you would use if you were performing the action normally. For example, firing a drone-mounted weapon at a target requires a Gunnery + Agility test

[Herr Brackhaus]

Rooks
That only applies to the Control Device action, which is a matrix action not necessarily used by riggers.

[Rooks]

man this edition needs an errata anniversary edition worse than 4th e

[Marcus Gideon]

Not to mention, that specific example in Control Device is completely counter to their own explanation.

Core pg 183, Gunnery

The rules and modifiers for ranged combat apply to vehicle-mounted weapons. Vehicle-mounted weapons are fired using Gunnery + Agility [Accuracy] for manual operation, like door guns on mounts, or Gunnery + Logic [Accuracy] for remote operated systems.

And then what does Control Device say?

... using your commlink or deck like a remote control ...

There is only one logical explanation. They say that if you give enough monkeys enough typewriters, they will pound out the complete works of Shakespeare. Well, in-between Hamlet and Macbeth, they wrote Shadowrun.

[brasso]

The rules (and setting) of SR are pretty vague in places, so the best we can hope for is to check the facts, discuss then make an assumption which suits our table the best 

[Medicineman]

@ Marcus Gideon

They say that if you give enough monkeys enough typewriters, they will pound out the complete works of Shakespeare. Well, in-between Hamlet and Macbeth, they wrote Shadowrun.

I guess You mean somewhere in between a Trekkies Tale and a Midsummernight's Dream , they wrote Shadowrun... ?
 http://www.wiccananime.com/amslt/amslttrekkiestale

HokaHey
Medicineman

[Adamo1618]

The point is that Logic, which is sort of analogous to IQ, would not affect how good I am at FPS games. It would rather be my sense of aim, which Agility is by definition. I mean, all combat skills use it to aim and hit.

Once you're jacked in though, your Agility is moot.

Also, this is what Logic is:

The Logic attribute measures the cold, calculating power of your rational mind. Whether you are attempting to repair complicated machinery or patch up an injured teammate, Logic helps you get things right.

This is what Agility is:

Agility measures things like hand-eye coordination, flexibility, nimbleness, and balance.

Given these two, I'd definitely say that Logic is the brain's Agility. And, when you're in VR, you're using your brain entirely instead of your body, I'd go with Logic for Gunnery.

THAT SAID, this is just my ruling.

I agree. But we were in fact discussing the Control Device action, when using it in AR. But yes, in VR mental stats are way more appropriate. Something seems off about using Logic instead of Intuition, but no matter.

EDIT: the Logic/Intuition discussion is really off-topic, maybe we should take it in a new thread.

[Adamo1618]

Rooks
That only applies to the Control Device action, which is a matrix action not necessarily used by riggers.

Which action would they use instead? I can't recall any alternative...

[Herr Brackhaus]

Rooks
That only applies to the Control Device action, which is a matrix action not necessarily used by riggers.

Which action would they use instead? I can't recall any alternative...

The usual Fire Weapon actions, as riggers who are jumped in follow normal combat rules. The only difference is they use Gunnery as the Active Skill, and Logic (in my opinion because they're jumped in) as the attribute. Control Device is only necessary for AR control when you use your commlink or deck like a remote control or video game controller.

This is the difference between a rigger being jumped in through his Control Rig and "being the machine" and someone using their commlink to remote control a drone like an RC car. But that's just my interpretation; the book literally leaves this so open that a number of other interpretations exists, as evidenced by this thread.

[Marcus Gideon]

Rooks
That only applies to the Control Device action, which is a matrix action not necessarily used by riggers.

Which action would they use instead? I can't recall any alternative...

The only Matrix action that the Rigger needs to perform is Core pg 241, Jump Into Rigged Device.