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How to make a shifter with good armor

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RacoonSF

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« on: <07-12-15/1412:46> »
I'm (still) trying to make a shifter character, specifically an adept focused on unarmed combat.
I chose Ursine as it is the only form with decent combat stats (seriously I have NO idea why Leonine is also at 20 Karma and Tigrine is at 25).

I can get some decent unarmed damage and AP in metahuman and animal form, especially with Penetrating Strike.

There is one serious problem, though: Armor. Of course in metahuman form it's ok as I can buy an armor jacket etc.
But considering my goal of building a shifter that fights mainly in animal form, I can't get any decent armor / damage resistance values.
Besides there would be the need for a full body strip at the start of every fight with armor jacket ...

Even with Berserker mentor spirit an max  Mystic Armor it's 6 Armor. Six. If I went for maximum Body (which I would not) I could get a damage resistance dice pool of 17 in animal form. That's not much for a melee adept.

Any suggestions?

Hobbes

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« Reply #1 on: <07-12-15/1432:08> »
Not that you could likely aford the Karma or Nuyen, but Prototype Transhuman with Orthoskin and Bone Density upgrades will get you more soak.  But in all cases you will be better off in your Metahuman form with armor and a weapon. 

The Animal form for Shifters is 100% cosmetic, and is mechanically useless for almost all purposes, at least for the bigger ones.  Fox, Dog, Falcon forms have some uses.  Falcon can fly, that has to come in handy occasionally.  Dog as a instant disguise, Foxes can get into small spaces.  As long as there is no Astral Security or you've got a way to hide your Aura, the smaller forms can do some light scouting work. 

Now, if you go with lots of Reaction, Intuition, and max out combat sense you can claw your way to a moderate defense test in your Animal shape.  The Felines are better suited, but as you noted they cost a silly amount.  But an Ursine with 12+ dice on defense tests would have some staying power.

Mostly it's a cute party trick, sorry. 

Moonshine Fox

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« Reply #2 on: <07-12-15/1903:18> »
You could probably with only a little modification in the cost and availability, find animal armor/barding like https://www.pinterest.com/eakatrine/animal-battle-armor/ that would would for you. Be a bit of a pain to get in and out of, but doable. You could also look into investing into a talismonger friend and get some armor spell mixtures for use during the run.

ZeldaBravo

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« Reply #3 on: <07-12-15/1948:49> »
I'm (still) trying to make a shifter character, specifically an adept focused on unarmed combat.
I chose Ursine as it is the only form with decent combat stats (seriously I have NO idea why Leonine is also at 20 Karma and Tigrine is at 25).

I can get some decent unarmed damage and AP in metahuman and animal form, especially with Penetrating Strike.

There is one serious problem, though: Armor. Of course in metahuman form it's ok as I can buy an armor jacket etc.
But considering my goal of building a shifter that fights mainly in animal form, I can't get any decent armor / damage resistance values.
Besides there would be the need for a full body strip at the start of every fight with armor jacket ...

Even with Berserker mentor spirit an max  Mystic Armor it's 6 Armor. Six. If I went for maximum Body (which I would not) I could get a damage resistance dice pool of 17 in animal form. That's not much for a melee adept.

Any suggestions?
The idea is cool, but it impossible to achieve without some houseruling. How long a bear will last in a firefight? It may be the strongest and the smartest black bear to walk the land but he will die to automatic fire and grenades. Sure, you can ace a bar fight no sweat or intimidate the hell out of a couple gangers/guards. Or smash down a door or two. But Shifter's 'combat form' is a metahuman. Bear stuff is mostly utility.
« Last Edit: <07-12-15/2127:04> by ZeldaBravo »
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

Reaver

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« Reply #4 on: <07-12-15/2105:20> »
There is a reason the Grizzly Bear, The Buffalo, the Puma and the Wolf are all protected species:

Firearms.

ZB is entirely correct. What you are trying to do will ALWAYS fail vs a metahuman form, for the simple reason that armor adds some much to the balance, and there is no realistic armor for a ahifter's animal form.

So, automatically your choice to 'buff' your animal form has limited function. Close quarters, limited opponents you shine. Outside of that, you're a 3 meter 500 lbs furry bullet ridden corpse.

A better bet is to go with a high reaction + initition animal form for your defense test. If high enough, you avoid the gun fire completely, thus avoiding armor altogether. But again they still have the same limited combat options.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Hobbes

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« Reply #5 on: <07-12-15/2131:31> »
4 reaction, 5 Intuition, 5 levels Combat Sense, 14 dice of defense test on an Ursine.

Cats and wolves do a little better, and are a little faster, but don't hit as hard.

But your Metahuman form will likely have as many dice to dodge, plus armor.  So.... yeah.  Back to you're playing in Metahuman form most of the time. 

Glyph

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« Reply #6 on: <07-12-15/2150:08> »
You could probably with only a little modification in the cost and availability, find animal armor/barding like https://www.pinterest.com/eakatrine/animal-battle-armor/ that would would for you. Be a bit of a pain to get in and out of, but doable. You could also look into investing into a talismonger friend and get some armor spell mixtures for use during the run.

That would involve carrying around two sets of armor (one for each form), as well as relying on a teammate to put the barding on you.  The main thing shapeshifters had going for them was regeneration; without it, they aren't very useful.

Reaver

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« Reply #7 on: <07-13-15/0124:20> »
You mean: "there is less incentive to make combat monster"

There is still lots of reasons, and uses for shifters.

But "I am an unkillable dicing star-nosed-mole from the abys" builds are thankfully gone.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Csjarrat

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« Reply #8 on: <07-13-15/1428:51> »
Honestly, I really struggle with shifters. everytime I build one I end up abandoning it for one reason or another. mechanically, as you've found out, combat is a major issue. In-game they're a real issue; changing forms means figuring out what happens with your clothes/electronics/armour/weapons, either ending up with a naked bloke on the run or half the team trying to fit a suit of armour onto a leopard.
For me though, the biggest problem is why on earth would a fox/cat/bird/etc joing another species, only to willingly put its life on the line in that foregin species' criminal underworld for currency they don't need? why wouldn't they just carry on being a fox?
If you want to explore the animal side of things, perhaps take a druid mage with an appropriate mentor spirit and a spell from the shapeshift/animal form group and RP it the other way. it is stacks of karma better and avoids a lot of the pit-falls, whilst giving you the utility of the animal form when you need it on the off-chance that being a bird is better than just flying a cheap recon drone over the wall
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Hobbes

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« Reply #9 on: <07-13-15/1521:43> »
Why do humans bring other species into their homes to feed, love and shelter them? 

Why would a sentient being spend their entire life avoiding other sentients?

Why would a shifter spend it's whole life in one form?

Why would a shifter born into a Metahuman environment leave for the unknown wilderness?  Canine, Bovine, Equine are most likely from domesticated stock, house pet or farm animal.  Potentially Vulpine or Canine would be born in an Urban environment too, I see Foxes around in the suburbs every now and then, and a pack of Coyotes lives a block from my house.  Potentially any shifter could come from Zoo stock.

Population pressure pushing one of the larger predator forms into the sprawls for a hunting ground?

And of course the #1 reason a shifter would be interacting with Metahumanity, habitat loss due to urban expansion or pollution.  Simply no place else to go.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #10 on: <07-13-15/1527:23> »
Shifter armor is easy to come by:
Body Armor Bag comes in all sizes and should be formless enough to accomodate even the form of a bear. Combined with mystic armor and a riot shield and upgraded with gel packs your bear will be adequately protected against small arms fire.

talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Hobbes

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« Reply #11 on: <07-13-15/1538:52> »
Shifter armor is easy to come by:
Body Armor Bag comes in all sizes and should be formless enough to accomodate even the form of a bear. Combined with mystic armor and a riot shield and upgraded with gel packs your bear will be adequately protected against small arms fire.

Bear with a Riot Shield!  Brilliant!  Not subtle, but the bag is certainly low key enough to carry around.  Keep the shield in the car for the heavy loadout. 

Heck, the Secure Tech PPP stuff could get slapped on too, possibly with a little help.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #12 on: <07-13-15/1546:08> »
How subtle do you think a bear shifter is to begin with  ;D
Also: Just carry the shield in the bag.
If you are really worried about stealth: Slap ruthenium polymers on the bag and hide it in plain sight.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Sterling

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« Reply #13 on: <07-13-15/1552:55> »
How subtle do you think a bear shifter is to begin with  ;D
Also: Just carry the shield in the bag.
If you are really worried about stealth: Slap ruthenium polymers on the bag and hide it in plain sight.

Heh.  From the fluff that's why ruthenium got made illegal in the first place!
"His name is Sterling. He’s an ex-pat Brit making a living as a fixer and a hacker in Metropole. He’s a rare blend of upstanding and fun...(so) listen to his experience."
>>Data Trails, p.82

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #14 on: <07-13-15/1635:41> »
That's where I got the idea from. It's also funny to imagine a partially invisible bear mauling people  ;D
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex