[JmOz01]

Yup was away from book and a real computer.  I tend to post short messages when on my phone because of it. 

Reading the passages I would have to agree with the cannot combined.  Back to the drawing board on that idea (was looking for a +1 to reaction for my lightly cybered adept. 

[Tarislar]

I'd say the best way for an Adept to get +4 Reaction is 3 Levels of Improved Reflexes & 1 Level of Improved Physical Attribute (Reaction).

I'd also add that, depending if you want it for dodging bullets or increased initiative, you might be better off getting 2 levels of Combat Sense instead of the Reaction.

[gradivus]

I'd say the best way for an Adept to get +4 Reaction is 3 Levels of Improved Reflexes & 1 Level of Improved Physical Attribute (Reaction).

I'd also add that, depending if you want it for dodging bullets or increased initiative, you might be better off getting 2 levels of Combat Sense instead of the Reaction.

Seriously...that's 4.5 PP for +4 reaction and an initiative of 2d6+4+INT when you can spend 3.5PP for a +3 Reaction and an Initiative of 4d6+3+INT.... there's not enough meaningful skills for reaction that having a +1 reaction  beats having an extra 2d6... and saving the 1 PP you could still buy another point of Reaction but I've never thought that attribute at 1 PP a piece are worth it compared to just buying the bio versions... (except maybe BODY as it's hard to get BODY increases)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Presuming the GM allows it, the best buy continues to be Improved Reflexes + Adrenaline Boost - presuming your GM permits the combination.

[Top Dog]

I'd say the best way for an Adept to get +4 Reaction is 3 Levels of Improved Reflexes & 1 Level of Improved Physical Attribute (Reaction).

I'd also add that, depending if you want it for dodging bullets or increased initiative, you might be better off getting 2 levels of Combat Sense instead of the Reaction.

Seriously...that's 4.5 PP for +4 reaction and an initiative of 2d6+4+INT when you can spend 3.5PP for a +3 Reaction and an Initiative of 4d6+3+INT.... there's not enough meaningful skills for reaction that having a +1 reaction  beats having an extra 2d6... and saving the 1 PP you could still buy another point of Reaction but I've never thought that attribute at 1 PP a piece are worth it compared to just buying the bio versions... (except maybe BODY as it's hard to get BODY increases)

His combination gives (for 4.5 PP) +4 reaction and an initiative of INT+REA(+4)+4d6. Improved Reflexes is the one that increases dice ánd Reaction; he said to get 3 levels of that. (You would always, always get Improved Reflexes past the first before Increased Physical Attribute (Reaction) by they way. They both increase Reaction, at the same cost, except one also gives Initiative dice).

Now there's a good argument to be made that the seperate 1 level of Increased Physical Attribute (Reaction) isn't worth it; it is indeed quite expensive for what you get. But that's still very different from your interpretation. (You don't get Reaction for the skills, btw, you get it for dodge and initiative).

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Honestly, I think that's really evidence that people became more aware of drug-stacking questions as later books got released.  That is totally a guess, but you can detect certain shifts in language as the product line developed.

That'll suck it if it so... about the only thing going for wired reflex is that word, "augmentation". It specifically says "enhancements" in all the other ones from Reaction Enhancer to Synaptic Booster to Lightning Reflexes to Improved Reflexes. A pretty steep essence cost for that then... maybe when Move by Wire systems come out that would be a good essence trade again if we won't be able to stack drugs on it. Though stacking Kamikaze is still always possible with Reaction Enhancers.

Nathan

[gradivus]

I'd say the best way for an Adept to get +4 Reaction is 3 Levels of Improved Reflexes & 1 Level of Improved Physical Attribute (Reaction).

I'd also add that, depending if you want it for dodging bullets or increased initiative, you might be better off getting 2 levels of Combat Sense instead of the Reaction.

Seriously...that's 4.5 PP for +4 reaction and an initiative of 2d6+4+INT when you can spend 3.5PP for a +3 Reaction and an Initiative of 4d6+3+INT.... there's not enough meaningful skills for reaction that having a +1 reaction  beats having an extra 2d6... and saving the 1 PP you could still buy another point of Reaction but I've never thought that attribute at 1 PP a piece are worth it compared to just buying the bio versions... (except maybe BODY as it's hard to get BODY increases)

His combination gives (for 4.5 PP) +4 reaction and an initiative of INT+REA(+4)+4d6. Improved Reflexes is the one that increases dice ánd Reaction; he said to get 3 levels of that. (You would always, always get Improved Reflexes past the first before Increased Physical Attribute (Reaction) by they way. They both increase Reaction, at the same cost, except one also gives Initiative dice).

Now there's a good argument to be made that the seperate 1 level of Increased Physical Attribute (Reaction) isn't worth it; it is indeed quite expensive for what you get. But that's still very different from your interpretation. (You don't get Reaction for the skills, btw, you get it for dodge and initiative).

Laughing at myself..Just reread this- was tired and thought he wrote 3 levels of Improved Attribute(Reaction) and 1 level of Improved Reflexes instead of the other way around. Which is how I came to the  2d6+4+INT.
And of course, even if he had written what my tired mind thought, I forgot to include the characters base REA in that initiative.

[Beaumis]

I've been wanting to sort through this for a while, so I'm taking this opportunity.

The book defines Reaction, Imitative and Initiative dice separately, but there isn't a single stacking issue that explicitly mentions Imitative Dice, so I'm going to treat those two as one. The whole Issue really comes down to the question of whether or not you require a coincidence of stacking on both sides. If you don't, weird stuff happens that allows Improved Reflexes to stack with Reaction Enhancers but not the other way around. If you do, the following table should show all stacking that I could find.

Edit: Table Updated. Read as follows:
The first Value is Reaction, the Second Initiative (Dice). A "-" Indicates that the Value is not improved by the item/ability in question and therefore does not matter. Entries that contain a Yes stack. I already ruled out instances of "one way stacking".

	Improved Reflexes	Wired Reflexes	Reaction Enhancers	Synaptic Booster	Lightning Reflexes	Drugs	Suprathyroid  gland	Increase Reflexes
Improved Reflexes		No/No	No/No	No/No	No/No	Yes/No	Yes/-	-/No
Wired Reflexes	No/No		Yes/No	No/No	No/No	Yes/Yes	No/No	-/Yes
Reaction Enhancers	No/No	Yes/-		No/No	No/No	No/No	No/No	-/Yes
Synaptic Booster	No/No	No/No	No/No		No/No	No/No	No/No	-/No
Lightning Reflexes	No/No	No/No	No/No	No/No		No/No	No/No	-/No
Drugs	Yes/No	Yes/Yes	No/No	No/No	No/No	Yes/Yes	Yes/-	-/Yes
Suprathyroid  gland	Yes	No/No	No/No	No/No	No/No	Yes		-/Yes
Increase Reflexes	-/No	-/Yes	-/Yes	-/No	-/No	-/Yes	-/Yes

Increase Reflexes is a bit weird because it makes no statement to stacking whatsoever and is the only instance of Imitative being improved directly. I considered Initiative and Initiative Dice to be the same for the purpose of this table, but be aware that they are two separate stats.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

I'm going to assume the -/- stands for Reaction/Initiative unless clarified further.

Checking....

First Issue- Improved Reflexes & Superthyroid Gland are NOT compatible for Initiative. The +1REA from SG is subsumed by the IR +1, IR states "No Technical or Magical" in that calculation. They will stack on REA but your chart doesn't clarify that with a blanket yes. Maybe put a yes/no* (reads at the bottom of the chart *Bonuses stack for REA calculation but not Initiative, use highest Bonus only.)


You might want to add Increased Reflexes spell on there as well. Since it will work with Reaction Enhancers, Wired Reflexes, Drugs, & Superthyroid Gland but not Improved Reflexes, Lightning Reflexes, & Synaptic Booster.


Very good chart, thank you for putting it together.

[Novocrane]

If you do, the following table should show all stacking that I could find.

As of Lockdown, there is also Accelerator, which works with most of everything. Just not other drugs, unless you like taking 10+ stun damage ... actually, you should probably change the drug compatibility with itself. ODing is immediate and harsh.

This drug has proven uniquely compatible with base model cybernetic and bionetic enhancements. The Initiative Dice increase is compatible with Rating 1 initiative enhancement systems (making for a total 5D6 initiative dice bonus, but that’s as high as the bonus goes).

Whenever you take a substance while you’re already on that substance or one that has a shared effect (like the way cram and novacoke both affect Reaction), you take Stun damage with a DV equal to the sum of the Addiction Ratings of the overlapping drugs, resisted with Body + Willpower.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

The base rule is, 'if one of them says they're not compatable, they're not compatable.'  So in the case of your table, you need a double-yes to stack.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

The base rule is, 'if one of them says they're not compatable, they're not compatable.'  So in the case of your table, you need a double-yes to stack.

Some things specifically enhance REA & other things affect Initiative. Or are you saying that anything that effects Initiative qualifies as Initiative... That's why I troubleshot the Improved Reflexes/Superthyroid Gland. Level 1 Improved Reflexes & Level 1 Superthyroid Gland stack for a +2 REA Bonus but only a +1 when counting Initiative. Or something like Reaction Enhancers  which stack with Increased Reflexes spell since RE only affects & limits REA enhancement while IR spell only enhances the Initiative itself.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Understand that these things are Very Specific about a) what they enhance, and b) what aren't compatable.  Things that enhance your initiative are things that add to:

• Reaction
• Intuition
• Reflexes, aka '+Xd6 dice'
• Initiative
• Your Initiative Score

If something says that it enhances reaction, then it enhances reaction, and does not stack (if that's what it says) with other things that enhance your reaction.  Anything that enhances your reaction, however, is going to add directly to your initiative - but that does not mean it does not stack with other things that add to your initiative.  Ditto with Intuition.  Only a few things apply to your Reflexes/Initiative Dice; as far as I am aware, except for drugs, none of those stack, and a total of 5d6 is the absolute maximum possible in EVERY case.  There are things, however, that add a) to your Initiative, which I read as being seperate from Reaction or Intuition or Reflexes, but which apply directly to your Initiative (should you ever need to roll it in dice), and b) those which add directly to your Initiative Score, such as Adrenaline Boost, and thus apply after initiative is rolled.

[Beaumis]

I'm going to assume the -/- stands for Reaction/Initiative unless clarified further.

I should have clarified that. Yes, the first entry is reaction, the second is Initiative. I used a single yes when there was only one increase available, but I can see how that is confusing. I'll change it.

Regarding the Suprathyroid  Gland, Ouroboros said it already. I don't have Lockdown yet. I'll have a look at it later, I've been wanting to pick it up anyway.

I'll update the chart now. Thanks for the feedback

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

If you do, the following table should show all stacking that I could find.

As of Lockdown, there is also Accelerator, which works with most of everything. Just not other drugs, unless you like taking 10+ stun damage ... actually, you should probably change the drug compatibility with itself. ODing is immediate and harsh.

This drug has proven uniquely compatible with base model cybernetic and bionetic enhancements. The Initiative Dice increase is compatible with Rating 1 initiative enhancement systems (making for a total 5D6 initiative dice bonus, but that’s as high as the bonus goe

Wow... Accelerator is by far the worst possible drug ever!!! Just read the stats on it... lasts for round but makes you paranoid & hallucinate for hours to rounds in effect. The bleeding like a stuck pig doesn't help much either... man that is some ridiculous bad stuff right there.