[EltonJ]

. . . Is usually considered full Fluency?  I'm kind of lost in finding out what the rating is.  Is it 6, or is it 10?

[Senko]

I don't think there is one. I asked a similar question (what rating is considered native) and the general consensus was if it lets you use your full dice pool or hits (can't remember which) when rolling a check e.g. if you can only roll 3 and have a possibility of 7 then your not fluent. If you can roll 3 and have a possibility of 3 then your fluent. Personally I tend to consider a 4 as good enough if you aren't trying for that since a 4 is professional level in the system (3 is fairly good but you have problems with complex operations or tricks. It should certainly do for general communication, in fact I think a 1 is "fluent" as long as your talking rather than trying to influence people.

EDIT
Found it here's the thread http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=19645.msg351356#msg351356

[Top Dog]

It's similar, but not the exact same question. Fluency isn't as good as native, it means you can speak, write and understand the language quickly and efficiently. That is, you can do it without (significant) breaks and errors.

Unfortunately, that distinction is itself quite vague, so putting an exact value on it in SR is hard. My opinion would be 8 dice worth; enough to buy 2 hits (IE you can reliably communicate relatively complex thoughts).

[Novocrane]

Threshold for communicating via a language range from 1-4.

1 (basic conversation / universal concepts)
2 (limited interest topics)
3 (intricate subjects)
4 (obscure subjects)

If you can manage 8+ dice to buy hits, then I'd consider that fluent. If you have to speak in a dialect or lingo, then that's 2 less dice. AR adds 1-4 dice.

Then you have the p131 list of What Skill Ratings Mean ... and this would call Rating 4 "proficient". Your average wageslave might require AR to reach threshold 2, and really have to work the digital side of things or struggle with lingo, but at rating 4, they're mostly there.

[Senko]

Well I was sort of assuming the average human stat of 3 when I posted that so 4 + 3 = 7 fairly close to 8 pool to make a check.

[Novocrane]

It's one of those things I'd expect to meet the 4:1 bought hits rule under most situations, which would make AR necessary.

[Namikaze]

Threshold for communicating via a language range from 1-4.

1 (basic conversation / universal concepts)
2 (limited interest topics)
3 (intricate subjects)
4 (obscure subjects)

If you can manage 8+ dice to buy hits, then I'd consider that fluent. If you have to speak in a dialect or lingo, then that's 2 less dice. AR adds 1-4 dice.

Then you have the p131 list of What Skill Ratings Mean ... and this would call Rating 4 "proficient". Your average wageslave might require AR to reach threshold 2, and really have to work the digital side of things or struggle with lingo, but at rating 4, they're mostly there.

Novocrane, where did you get that assessment of language skill?  I don't disagree, I think that having 4 or more should be pretty damn well fluent.  I'm just curious.

[EltonJ]

I guess I'll have to house rule it then.  All these answers does answer my question, but pretty vaguely.  But the general consensus is that if you can get eight dice to get at least 2 hits on a test, then your at least considered to have conversant fluency.   One my players took a lot of language skills instead of knowledge skills, and all of them averaged at rating 2.  I wanted to advise him on how to achieve true fluency, and the rules (SR4/SR5) didn't have a benchmark on what rating is considered fluency.

I just wanted to know if it said anything in the rules concretely which rating is understood as true fluency.

[8-bit]

Threshold for communicating via a language range from 1-4.

1 (basic conversation / universal concepts)
2 (limited interest topics)
3 (intricate subjects)
4 (obscure subjects)

If you can manage 8+ dice to buy hits, then I'd consider that fluent. If you have to speak in a dialect or lingo, then that's 2 less dice. AR adds 1-4 dice.

Then you have the p131 list of What Skill Ratings Mean ... and this would call Rating 4 "proficient". Your average wageslave might require AR to reach threshold 2, and really have to work the digital side of things or struggle with lingo, but at rating 4, they're mostly there.

Novocrane, where did you get that assessment of language skill?  I don't disagree, I think that having 4 or more should be pretty damn well fluent.  I'm just curious.

Page 140-141 of the Core Rule Book.

[EltonJ]

Threshold for communicating via a language range from 1-4.

1 (basic conversation / universal concepts)
2 (limited interest topics)
3 (intricate subjects)
4 (obscure subjects)

If you can manage 8+ dice to buy hits, then I'd consider that fluent. If you have to speak in a dialect or lingo, then that's 2 less dice. AR adds 1-4 dice.

Then you have the p131 list of What Skill Ratings Mean ... and this would call Rating 4 "proficient". Your average wageslave might require AR to reach threshold 2, and really have to work the digital side of things or struggle with lingo, but at rating 4, they're mostly there.

Novocrane, where did you get that assessment of language skill?  I don't disagree, I think that having 4 or more should be pretty damn well fluent.  I'm just curious.

Page 140-141 of the Core Rule Book.

I assume that's SR5?
------------

Pages 140-141 (SR5) doesn't say anything about that.  Page 149 (SR5) does have a threshold rating where 6+ is obscure knowledge.  So using that as a guideline, Rating 6 represents full fluency in a language skill.  Thank you man for directing me to the answer of my question!

[Top Dog]

Pages 140-141 (SR5) doesn't say anything about that.  Page 149 (SR5) does have a threshold rating where 6+ is obscure knowledge.  So using that as a guideline, Rating 6 represents full fluency in a language skill.  Thank you man for directing me to the answer of my question!

He mistyped - the table for language thresholds is on P151, top right (P150 holds more info on languages as well).

The page you mention is tresholds for Knowledge skills. While related, they're not the same thing, and those thresholds do not apply. Besides, a threshold 6 doesn't mean that a rating 6 is enough (you'd need 18 dice to reliably hit that, 24 to guarantee it with bought dice). The reason we say 8 (for int + skill) is because that's enough to buy 2 hits, enough for complex subjects.

And yes, the answers are vague, but that's because the concept of "fluency" is rather vague and the rules aren't that clear.

[gradivus]

Remember, when speaking to someone while not using a native language, your DP on social skills is the lesser of your DP or the ranks in the language.

So that player with 2 in let's say German could never get more than two dice on etiquette, negotiations etc. even if he had  Skill 6 for example.

Whether this cap includes CHA or just the skill can be interpreted either way...  as the example seems to imply that skill in this case includes CHA as SAL has a negotiations of 6, language skill of 3 and it says he gets 3 skill dice...

[8-bit]

He mistyped - the table for language thresholds is on P151, top right (P150 holds more info on languages as well).

Whoops. Yes, I meant those pages. Got the 4 and 5 mixed up in my head for some reason.

[Namikaze]

Ahh, okay.  So since those are thresholds, it's worth noting that those aren't skill levels.  If you're attempting to communicate very technical information (Obscure, Threshold 4) you need to roll your Language skill + Intuition and get 4 hits.  Otherwise, interesting things might happen.

So I think to be fluent, you need probably around...  6-7 dice.  That would give you the skill necessary to hit 2+ hits most of the time.  So that's about a 3-4 skill, assuming the average Intuition of 3.

[Senko]

Which matches up quite well with 3 being able to do a job but having problems with complex operations and 4 being professional level for most jobs.