[Winter]

I am trying to understand how many Build Points the Enemy Neg. Quality is worth.  In it's initial entry, it says "Variable, Max. 25."  In the expanded entry on pg. 132 of the Runner's Companion, the text reads, "Enemies are worth additional BPs equal to the sum of their (modified) Connection rating plus their Incidence rating."  Additional to what?  How can you possibly get up to a max of 25 BP?  I understand how to find the Connection rating, even modified Connection ratings for Enemy groups or Virtual Enemies, & I understand the Incidence Ratings that one adds to the Connection rating.  However, is there a base BP cost for the Enemy Quality that is not mentioned anywhere that one adds to this number?  Many thanks to anyone who cares to advise.
-Winter 

[Nomad Zophiel]

I am trying to understand how many Build Points the Enemy Neg. Quality is worth.  In it's initial entry, it says "Variable, Max. 25."  In the expanded entry on pg. 132 of the Runner's Companion, the text reads, "Enemies are worth additional BPs equal to the sum of their (modified) Connection rating plus their Incidence rating."  Additional to what?  How can you possibly get up to a max of 25 BP?  I understand how to find the Connection rating, even modified Connection ratings for Enemy groups or Virtual Enemies, & I understand the Incidence Ratings that one adds to the Connection rating.  However, is there a base BP cost for the Enemy Quality that is not mentioned anywhere that one adds to this number?  Many thanks to anyone who cares to advise.
-Winter 

Look up groups as contacts. Apply to enemies. You can have an enemy with a Connection rating of 6, 14 points of Group modifiers and an incidence of 5 or any other appropriate combination. The Ancients, for example are worth Connection 6+6 for 1,000 plus members+6 for Global+1 for some Magic power=19 plus incidence. Really any big corp that's out to get you is good for 20 or more before incidence is added in.

[Doc Chaos]

And if something with 20 is out to get you you better dig a DEEP hole to hide in...

[Nomad Zophiel]

Considering most negative traits gover in the 5-15 range, 25 BP worth should be pretty major. Being BLIND is only worth 10, so figure accordingly.

[Chaemera]

Enemies work just like contacts (except they have incidence instead of loyalty to measure how often they come into play). Take a look at page 132 of Runner's Companion, they lay it out pretty thoroughly. As Nomad points out, there's additional info if you want a "Group" enemy, starting on page 124 of Runner's Companion.

Paraphrased math:

Single Enemy = Incidence + Connections BP
Group Enemy = Incidence + Connections + Membership + Area of Influence + Magical Resources + Matrix Resources BP

[FastJack]

Yeah, if you have enemies that are worth over 20 BP and are still alive, there's a reason you're not dead. And most likely, you won't know what it is.

[Doc Chaos]

Maybe the char starts to be played right after the incident that made the enemy. Should provide for a lot of action the first few sessions

[Winter]

Thanks to everyone who replied.  You definitely broke it down for me so I now understand the Enemy quality completely.  Thanks much!

[The_Gun_Nut]

Many players who insist on making characters with such ridiculously powerful Enemies (20 to 25 points) generally don't last beyond the first session, in my games.  Sometimes they die as an introduction to the first game to the other players, who didn't try to munchkin their way through life.

Seriously, 25 point Enemy?  Unless the rest of the team OK's it as their over-arching plot device (unanimously, at that), it's a bullet for my Shadowrunner and new character time.

[esprism]

A character must have a good background reason in order to choose one enemy.
Enemy must be a serious problem for the character but reduce enemy to someone who want to kill the character is reductive.

If character is a street level runner who want only money, there's no reason (playable?) to have a 20+ BP enemy.

If character have a strong background with fame 20BP for example, you can find good reasons to take a very strong enemy without killing character at first occasion.

[FastJack]

Heh... evil GM thought.

Player buys 20BP of Enemy so he can then spend more in the Gear section. Two options: Loan Shark fronted him the money or he ripped off a criminal syndicate. Either way, he's now got a mafia/triad/yakuza after him.

[The_Gun_Nut]

My problem with high point enemies is that they quickly become the group's enemy, whether the other player's wanted one or not.  Some of the significant negative qualities have the ability to intrude upon the other players.   Amnesia, for example, is notorious for railroading a group down the lost memory path.

Granted, I pulled off a massive, world-spanning, epic 2nd edition Shadowrun game in Denver that culminated with the death of not only a dragon, but the great dragon that killed him, the principal teocoli of the capital city of Aztlan, and Denver's "neutral meeting ground" status due to the invasion of a UCAS tank division and a cyberzombie flying a t-bird that was the players' exit strategy out of said mess.

[Nomad Zophiel]

Many players who insist on making characters with such ridiculously powerful Enemies (20 to 25 points) generally don't last beyond the first session, in my games.  Sometimes they die as an introduction to the first game to the other players, who didn't try to munchkin their way through life.

Seriously, 25 point Enemy?  Unless the rest of the team OK's it as their over-arching plot device (unanimously, at that), it's a bullet for my Shadowrunner and new character time.

"Hey Nate, thanks for showing up tonight. Got your character made? Good. He's dead, make a new one while the rest of us play."
Seriously, that's kind of a shitty thing to do to someone who's trying to have fun with his friends when you could just discuss the issue with him in advance.

Every Negative Quality is taken so people can get more points. What makes a 20 point enemy more munchkiny than 20 points of other Qualities?
Yes, enemies need to be fleshed out. No, they don't necessarily have to want the PC dead in the most efficient way possible or to spread the love to the rest of the party. See Burn Notice and/or Leverage. In particular notice how, in the former, every time the enemy seems to be taken care of, a bigger enemy takes its place.

[Chaemera]

I'm with Nomad. If 25 BP enemies are insta-death to your PC's b/c you don't like how such enemies play, tell your players that and house-rule a new cap for the Enemy trait.

That being said, every negative quality I've seen with my group, from In Debt to Flashbacks, Allergy to SINer, has been, at times, a group problem. Then again, that's the whole fraggin point. When you bring "Kiku, gun adept" to the party, you do so because she provides a ton of short range fire power. But, you also have to deal with the fact that she's a thrill seeker and leaves a white chrysanthemum at every heist.

When a team takes in a runner, they take the bad with the good. That's how it's supposed to be. The group has to deal with the consequences of every negative quality each of them takes, just as they reap the reward for every positive quality each of them takes.

[Kot]

Well, it's doable. For example, the character might cross a technomancer (for example by selling his hide to the corps), who'd be after him in the matrix. That enemy wouldn't want to kill him outright, just make his life a living hell. And his appearance wouldnt have to cause problems to other characters - he might be over it, and not tell them that their 'friend' is a double-crossing bastard. He'd cause a lot of problem anyways - virused warez and equipment, social problems (like putting his number on a troll porn lovers node, for example), and being cut of from the Matrix (or risking serious harm - the player doesn't have to know the rules of engagement), losing contacts (who might have been tipped off, or just harrassed/antagonized), the Enemy alerting the corporate security on his accurate position and objectives during a run, and so on... That could be quite easily recreated with a Magician, just through the use of ritual spells and spirits - just like the 'Accident' entry in Dunkelzahn's will.
Don't get me wrong, the Enemy would just want to utterly humilate the character, before he deals the final blow... And the character doesn't even have to be guilty - he could be the next best thing (a relative, friend, or lover) of the intended, but unavailable target. Or the Enemy could just be wrong about him - mistaken, misguided, or manipulated (by a Magician for example - the 'True' Enemy; this way you have two of them, both on manageable level).

Now, imagine how that would work with one of two other negative qualities - Escaped Clone, and Evil Twin. I had an 'evil GM grin' when i've thought of it...
The poential for great opportunities, both in terms or plot, character development, and roleplaying is indeed there. But as some of you noted - the whole party has to agree on it. And the enemy would have to be a recurring BBG, and an important part of the storyline.