[elrikthebastard]

Evening Everyone,

So just came back from a meet up with one of my more... ummmm... Munckin players.
Shadowrun Ver: 5e. I want to start at Street Level.
He wants to play an Elf Technomancer (Crashed his points right there).
The Background is the Characters Family wanted him to be a Mage, when he was about 12 they implanted Cerebral Booster (L2) and Mnemonic Enhancer (L2).

Now this is a Family that loves their Mages. And they killed one point of magic off the get go. Instead he never "awakens". So now he is a Technomancer, with Bioware in his head, so he is still gutted one point of Resonance. He also wants to use Flux as his "Totem" (wrong word). I don't have the book he is using, but he is willing to let me have a look but he had to go to work...

If I give him the two bits of bioware he wants that is 98400 yen, and 64 karma over, going by the Hero Labs editor. Every other players is right on the money with their PC's. Many will have to buy things as they play, opting to hide in the sleazier parts till they can afford Fake SINs and the like.

So I am sitting here decrypting his conversation with me. He always plays with an angle. And this one I am unsure of. Can anyone help me here?

As always thanks!

ETB

[Critter]

Well just glancing over this, if everyone else is running right to the dime on the character creation I don't think Snowflake has any right to be given special accords. Doubly so if they always try to game the system, plays the angles as you say it.

[JimmyCrisis]

Tell the guy "No, make a character using the character creation rules." 

You don't have to put up with players exploiting you.  As the GM, you are the only person at the table doing work, and players that give you headaches are an unnecessary and unwarranted burden on you, which makes the game worse for everyone else.  I would give him a talking to about playing nice with the system, and not invite him back if he continues that kind of behavior.

[elrikthebastard]

Thanks for getting back to me Gents.

My wife pretty much said the same thing.

I don't mind tweaking a bit to give the starting character some flavour but I agree, this is too much.

I think your right.

E

[DigitalZombie]

Id normally prefer the streetscum rules on page 354 instead of street levele play. As street level play only punishes non-awakened/emerged. But if your group is almost finished with character generation it might be too late to shift over.
While Im all for bending the rules a bit to better fit the concept of player characters, gaining free stuff for 90k+ in a campaing where priority A is a measly 75k is crazy.
That would be like giving a player for ½ a million nuyen stuff in a regular game, just because it "fits his concept".
if he really REALLY thinks its essential for his character, play by streetscum rules, then its actually possible for him (if he is a powergaming munchkin he will likely refuse, so be adamant about it ) In streetscum you have B,C,D,E,E as priorites or C,C,D,D,E so while its possible to be an elf technomancer with bioware, its gonna put a big limit on his powergaming, just remind him its part of his "concept".

If you and the other players (not the technomancer guy) find the streetscum rules too restrictive, you could always come up with an alternative priority list, like: B;C,C,D,E or something

mentors for technomancers are called paragorns

[elrikthebastard]

Paragons! Thank you!

Thanks Digitalzombie, I did read the Street Scum rules, but figured I am pushing this group pretty hard. There is a bit of drama to this gaggle of fellows. They have a bad habit of making ridiculous characters. I joined about 4 months ago and have been doing some push back, I like to follow some of the rules at least. I am certain they have an entire 64 volume set of encyclopedias to their House Rules, just for Rifts. This is how they play. I am a bloody fusion bomb in the middle of their Gaming Paradigm.

The stories of their Shadowrun games left me confused. Ad give me a headache.

Thanks again!

[elrikthebastard]

WHOO, better be more careful, my players are on the forum =-)

[osyran]

I can't wait to play this game! Simple baseline characters with a decent background. I think we'll find a way to break the chains of munchkinism...I hope. Ever since I started playing SR1, it has always been my favorite game. Seeing them bring back the priority system made me very pleased. Limits, even more so.

I'm looking forward to this game, and 'role-playing' my character the way it was meant to be. I hate 'roll-play' quite bit...probably why I'm only recently coming back into the RPG table-top sphere of gaming (after a 2 year hiatus). I'll do what I can to help, Elrik, as you know. We'll get it sorted, just make him make a new char (if you're reading this, love ya buddy, but sorry, dude - let's just play). Mine's pretty much done, and looks good, with obvious strengths and (maybe ) glaring weaknesses. I stuck to the rules; one rule book makes it simple (SR5). Let's keep it to that. After all, this is your game: Therefore, your rules.

[osyran]

WHOO, better be more careful, my players are on the forum =-)

I won't tell if you won't tell... 

[RHat]

RE: Flux

No way in hell does Flux come into SR5 with the same benefit he offered in SR4 (the implications of a flat Threading bonus are very different now) - if your player wants that benefit, the correct response is "hell no".  Optionally, you may wish to employ a metropolitan area phonebook as well.

More generally, what the guy is asking for are not simple flavour adjustments; he is attempting to reap extreme mechanical benefit and get for more resources at his disposal than the other players have.  Allowing this would be a very poor choice.

[Namikaze]

Hey there Elrik.  I'd say that there's nothing mechanically wrong with this character, but the story needs a little work.  First off, a family with a long line of mages would NEVER implant anything into their child unless they knew he/she wasn't ever going to become a mage.  So that aspect of the background just doesn't make sense.  If your player is willing to justify his mechanical choices with storyline, I'd say let him have at it.

[elrikthebastard]

Thanks guys for taking the time!

RHat: Do you feel Paragons are over powered to begin with? Or just the power difference from 4 to 5?

Namikaze: I requested a new story line, and basically I am getting the, "Just want to see what  you will allow." I have given my other players are very hard time on their builds and in the end the power difference between would be to drastic. The players are scraping to get gear they need and then a good portion of the important things they need they will have to develop in game, which I honestly love! Other then money this Technomancer with a bit of bioware and the bonuses to his skills would have been impressive. He would have had to make up for the missing point, but still.

Thanks again guys.

[martinchaen]

I don't see a problem with porting over Flow (there is no Flux Paragon); for 5 BP (which would be 10 karma) you get a flat +2 modifier to your Threading dice pool, and a +1 modifier to your Compile dice pool to compile Code OR Data sprites.

01 grants a +1 dice pool modifier to ALL compiling AND registering tests; Alias grants +2 to Spoof tests, +1 to Crack or Sleuth sprites; Archivist +2 to all Browse (probably replace with Matrix Search), and +1 to Code or Data sprites); and so on and so forth.

That being said, as a GM I'd want to sit down and review all the Paragons and rework them for SR5, before allowing them at all. Speaking of which, has this been done by anyone?

[RHat]

RHat: Do you feel Paragons are over powered to begin with? Or just the power difference from 4 to 5?

I wouldn't say they're overpowered - for the most part, SR4's paragons have drawbacks that are lax enough allow them to be positive for the character but still strong enough to balance things out.  However, Flow (I equated Flow and Flux in my head) wouldn't in SR5, because Threading in SR5 is not the same as Threading in SR4.  In SR4, the Matrix worked on Skill+Program, and Threading allowed you to increase (or create) Program Ratings or gain Program Options on the fly.  It was a powerful tool, but you still had a seperate dice roll to actually do anything.  On average, Flow only actually gave about +0.67 dice to whatever you were actually trying to do; this was just fine, because the disadvantage was actually negligible - a 2 die penalty to an action that no technomancer ever wants to be taking anyways.

More simply:  They were balanced, but under a completely different structure.  Because of the change in structure, they generally need to be rewritten altogether, and the specific case that your player appears to be referring to would be completely out of line - the equivalent to +2 to all Spellcasting for a mentor spirit with a negiligible drawback.

[martinchaen]

Except a Technomancer won't be using complex forms for everything he needs to do; he simply can't, because there are several actions that have no Complex Form equivalent.

A more appropriate analogy, to my mind, would be that of a mage gaining a +2 bonus to a certain school of spells, for example.

01 gives a +1 to all compiling and registering rolls, which would be the equivalent of a mage getting a +1 to all summoning and binding rolls.

In short, then, some paragons translate well, others don't. I'd ask the player to come up with a good backstory, and then I'd work with the player to come up with a solution that provides a benefit without being unbalanced.

Again, I don't personally see Flow as overpowered, but I'd want to make sure that the full effects of my actions were clear to me before allowing it.