[KarmaInferno]

Hm. Any of the published Named Horrors have an MO similar to CFD?




-k

[SlowDeck]

Speaking of dragons, how do you think they're reacting to this?  They may have foreseen the Insect Spirits or the Shedim because those things may have happened in the past when the mana reached a certain level.  But CFD isn't like that.

I think they're crapping their lairs. Bug spirits they foresaw, but not how fast those got unleashed. The Matrix they definitely didn't see coming. And this? I think it's sufficient to say they're panicking and wondering what new way of screwing up the world will come next.

[Mirikon]

Only one that I know of, Karma, and that one just unwound your Pattern so that you went from incredibly intelligent to dumber than a sack of bricks. But I don't think this is the work of a Horror. Magic and tech still don't mix, and Horrors fall on the magic side of things. Now, there's always the possibility that something came from the deep darks of the Resonance Realms, but most likely this started with AIs being tortured by NeoNET.

[psycho835]

Rule 1 of magic is that you can only hit what you can see. This is especially true with direct combat spells. The reason it is so hard to target nanites with spells is that even outside of the body, they're too small to see

*shudder* Damnit, I'd almost forgotten about those bastards! Make the Borg look cuddly in comparison.

How about a mage with radar sensor implant?

Also, what is that fragger in the picture?

[SlowDeck]

Also, what is that fragger in the picture?

'
It's a replicator from StarGate SG-1.

[Mirikon]

How about a mage with radar sensor implant?

Wouldn't solve the size problem. Outside a body, you could, with a VERY sensitive radar, perhaps pick up a 'cloud' of nanites, but we're talking about devices a few molecules in length. They range in size from .1 to 10 micrometers (.0001 to .01 millimeters). These things make RFID chips look the size of a barn door.

Also, what is that fragger in the picture?

As SlowDeck said, that is a Replicator. They are so nasty that the most advanced civilization in the universe was getting their little grey asses handed to them by these suckers. Individually, they aren't that bad. Shotguns work wonders on them (though energy weapons are less effective). The problem is their numbers. They eat everything around, and convert things like the WALLS OF YOUR SHIP into more blocks to make more replicators. They have blown up stars to try and get rid of these things. It is like taking kudzu, making it mobile, and giving it an active will to cover everything in sight.

[psycho835]

Drek. Still, you can always cast such anti-nanite spells on yourself. After all, it's sight OR touch, and I can' really think of a more direct physical contact than having the fraggin' things stuck inside your body.

And yeah, Replicators do sound pretty creepy.

Oh, and BTW, since I still don't have Stolen Souls, do CFD nanites show up on nanoware detectors?

[firebug]

Drek. Still, you can always cast such anti-nanite spells on yourself. After all, it's sight OR touch, and I can' really think of a more direct physical contact than having the fraggin' things stuck inside your body.

The issue there is, they'd have to be "indirect" spells, because mana spells couldn't target them.  Meaning they'd do collateral damage to you.  And any amount of collateral damage dealt to your brain is bad, mmkay?

Alternatively, it'd be like what the book talks about.  Someone tries to make an "expel all foreign objects from the body" spell.  It screws up because the person has implants, but one of the posters makes a good point.  Even if it did work, you'd still have millions of microscopic holes being blow through your body as they were forcibly rejected, which could cause serious damage if not simply kill you.

Suffice to say, magicing them away isn't an option.

[psycho835]

*lesigh* I rest my case.

[Namikaze]

The way I see it, the solution has to be multi-tiered.  Soft nanites and hard nanites respond to treatments differently, and the safety of the host (victim) is paramount.  The book mentions that doing dialysis succeeds in removing most of the soft nanites in a CFD victim.  It's not all, sure, but it's a lot.  Also, using a massive EMP will disrupt some, if not most, of the hard nanites.  So here's my proposed treatment regimen:

Place the host and treatment operation inside a Faraday cage.  Perform dialysis on the host, purging many of the soft nanites in the process.  Follow the dialysis with a massive EMP surge, just under the threshold of the host.  This will disrupt or destroy many of the hard nanites.  Perform another dialysis on the host in order to flush the disrupted nanites out of the host.  This second dialysis must be done exceedingly fast, which runs the risk of destroying the host's veins and arteries by crushing them.  This must be red-lined though, in order to get as many of the nanites out of the host as possible.  Be aware throughout that when a host is nearly dead, the CFD seems to take over completely and get the host back on its feet.  So there is a fine line between pushing the host to the edge and pushing the host over the edge.

My worry with this treatment is that there will be times when the host cannot tolerate as much treatment as other hosts, and there will be mistakes.  Additionally, there is always the fear that some of the nanites might have survived.  Therefore, I propose that this treatment take place every day or two over the course of a month.

[Mirikon]

That'll likely buy time, Namikaze, but unless we deal with the nanites like a computer virus and find a way to alter their programming into something benign, we should be thinking of them like a malignant, fast-moving Cancer. Unless you can get all the cancer out, all you've done is bought the victim more time. However, I'd say that your treatment, used just prior to a hacking attempt, would prove the most useful. Weaken the nanites as much as possible, and you weaken their threat in the matrix, making viral or direct hack attempts more likely to succeed.

[psycho835]

It's still the most doable solution thus far. At least until we get enough data to come up with something better. Perrsonaly, I like the idea with recovering the source code from Deep Resonance. The world that discriminated against technos is saved by them... And the public will never know, the Man won't give a drek and people will STILL hate them. Because, you know, dystopia.


Also, I've got some more magic-related ideas (though I don't really think these would work and yes, I do realize that by this point I must look like I'm obsessive-compulsive):

1. Fast/Nutrition - drawing sustenance from magic. Could this deny the nanites the resources, starve them to death, so to speak?
2. Mind Probe/Alter Memory - less solution and more interesting experiment, what do you think would happen if one of those spells were used on CFD patient when one of the "passangers" is in charge?

And on a different note, what happens when a DID patient (split personality) is infected with CFD?

[Namikaze]

I agree that the Deep Resonance should contain the solution.  Unfortunately, the fasting method wouldn't work as the nanites will tell the host to eat sand and such.

[martinchaen]

For that matter, what about a steady course of Laes cigarettes after every blackout? :-)

Or rather, doses of Laes administered by medical professionals when the CFD personality/personalities kick in.

Boom, they can't remember what they were doing...

[firebug]

For that matter, what about a steady course of Laes cigarettes after every blackout? :-)

Or rather, doses of Laes administered by medical professionals when the CFD personality/personalities kick in.

Boom, they can't remember what they were doing...

I know it was mostly a joke suggestion, but I wanna analyze it.  I think the nanites could prevent the Laes from affecting the patient, or worse, they may just have the memory stored in themselves and so could reimplant it.  Dunno about that last part...

I agree that the Deep Resonance should contain the solution.  Unfortunately, the fasting method wouldn't work as the nanites will tell the host to eat sand and such.

I don't think that'd be the issue as much as that since the body is still gaining nutrients (I suppose this depends on how the body works) they'd just use what they can from the body to build more.  Unless it's literally like a whole body-affecting stasis that just allows the cells to live purely on mana instead of turning mana into nutrients...  Which theoretically could work if you kept the body in such a place as to stop the PF from just controlling it and telling it to eat anything it can.  But to develop that kind of spell...  I dunno if it'd even be possible.