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Immortal Orc?

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Senko

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« Reply #30 on: <05-20-14/0718:44> »
Whoops could have sworn I corrected that.

cantrip

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« Reply #31 on: <05-20-14/2107:18> »
There're stats for her floating around in some book, but I can't seem to remember which one off the top of my head (somewhere in Dawn of the Artifacts, but I don't recall which one).

Her stats are also in Storm Front - sounds similar to the Artifact one mentioned - I don't have that one...yet... ;)

If immortal children existed through the years since the 4th and 5th age, they would have been major targets by all sides - so it is very possible that not many of them made it to 2075. Not to mention the ones that never knew they were immortal and died of...well not natural causes -- Let's go with "alternate causes"!

Senko

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« Reply #32 on: <05-21-14/0442:04> »
Interestingly though her stats make no mention of immune to aging/diseases/pathogens/toxins even though she's meant to have the immune to aging at least.

Tarislar

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« Reply #33 on: <05-21-14/1627:37> »
Harlequin's Back  (Circa 2055)

Jane Foster "Frosty"

Initiate Grade 2
Immunity to Age, Disease, Pathogens, Poisons.

A lowly Sorcery-4 & Conjuring-3, but already an Initiate-2 with 14 (15?) known spells ranging from Force-2 to Force-4
Bonded PowerFocus-4 and 2 Spell Locks.



Bruce

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« Reply #34 on: <05-23-14/1606:11> »
imho, IE's (and I-whatevers) make for interesting plot points and NPCs, but I would NEVER allow a PC; not even one who claimed to be 'just a descendant'; into my campaigns.

But since I have as an NPC a survivor of the 1st world...
This is kind of why most people hate IE's.  "Good enough for the GM,  but there's no way it's good enough for a PC" is an attitude an awful lot of players really hate.

I've never encountered those players, I guess.  I mean, I don't have players wanting to start a company and work their way up to AAA status, either.  Or wanting to play a Dragon, even a lesser one.

You could run that level or type of game, sure; but that's not the campaign I'm running, or would be comfortable in running.

Parker

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« Reply #35 on: <05-23-14/1847:32> »
Had a bad-guy immortal taken down by my players back when I was running a campaign while back. (course they didn't know he was immortal :))
Nothing like the threat of losing their paycheck, to motivate them to kill him and blow up his bunker/headquarters.  'Course his condition was merely temporary.  Nothing's better then seeing the looks on my players' faces when they saw him again back to making their lives difficult. ;)
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Critias

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« Reply #36 on: <05-23-14/1916:20> »
imho, IE's (and I-whatevers) make for interesting plot points and NPCs, but I would NEVER allow a PC; not even one who claimed to be 'just a descendant'; into my campaigns.

But since I have as an NPC a survivor of the 1st world...
This is kind of why most people hate IE's.  "Good enough for the GM,  but there's no way it's good enough for a PC" is an attitude an awful lot of players really hate.

I've never encountered those players, I guess.  I mean, I don't have players wanting to start a company and work their way up to AAA status, either.  Or wanting to play a Dragon, even a lesser one.

You could run that level or type of game, sure; but that's not the campaign I'm running, or would be comfortable in running.
See, that's just it, though.  You don't need to run any certain "level" of campaign to let someone call themselves an Immortal Elf, or (especially) the descendent of one.  You just let them write "immunity to aging" on their sheet under Qualities, and then probably "Enemy," and you talk to them to see how entangled they want to be in top-tier elven or draconic affairs. 

Being "Immortal" doesn't need to mean they're thousands (or even hundreds, or even lots and lots of dozens) of years old.  It might just mean a player likes the idea of their character not having to worry about dying of old age.  If they want to be the great-grandson of one of the canon IE's, but removed from them in terms of power level, finances, and personal influence...so what?  Why not let 'em?  It shows they've done a little research for the game, at least, and care about the setting a little, and it's just given you, the GM, some plot hooks.

But when you say "IE's are awesome plot hooks and NPCs for me, the GM, to use," right next to "but I would NEVER let a player like that into my campaign," it triggers some warning bells, at least to me.  Especially when you then go on to say you've got a pet NPC that's a survivor of the 1st world.  The GM already has the whole universe up his sleeve, and the deck is wholly stacked against his players.  When something as trivial as "I have a super long lifespan, unless I die in this incredibly dangerous profession I've chosen" is something a character really wants, and if they've got a background that fleshes out the character without dominating the campaign, I tend to fall on their side in the argument. 

"Never" is a really loaded word, when a GM is talking about toys he's allowed to play with and toys a PC might also want to touch sometimes.

Mirikon

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« Reply #37 on: <05-23-14/1938:07> »
But Critias, Great Dragons and megacorp CEOs are awesome plot hooks and NPCs for the GM to use, but they should NEVER let a player like that into their campaign. Would you let a player in your game say he was Damien Knight's son, or the mistress of a Corporate Court justice? There are, and always have been, things that are the purview of GMs, and GMs alone, regardless of system or setting, except for EXTREMELY out of the norm games, like a D&D game where the players are actual demi-gods or such, at 40th level or more. Or in the Marvel universe, would you seriously let a player be the Beyonder, or Galactus, or even Apocalypse?

On the face of it, being an immortal doesn't sound like it is that big a thing, and from a mechanics perspective, it isn't. But it is the same difference as that between a Barrens rat and a high society princess. Being one of those immortals gives you an 'in' to a very exclusive clique, with all that entails. For instance, Frosty is (I think) the youngest of the known immortals, but she was mentioned by name in Big D's will, even though she was an unknown only a few years before. And how many other Jackpointers can say they have sources that can tell them what happened in secret meetings of the dragon Council? That kind of thing can really skew a game wildly in the hands of a player, instead of a GM. Some things are best left as plot devices.
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Critias

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« Reply #38 on: <05-23-14/2001:35> »
Great Dragons have clear power.  CEOs have clear power.  Frosty has clear power (and lots of it).  But those are all quantifiable things.  Great Dragons have power not only because of their species, and their size, and their strength, and their magical talent, and their knowledge (being a "Great" takes time and stuff), but also because they travel in certain social circles and wield immense worldly power, while rubbing scaly elbows with others who do the same.  Heck, even your "Barrens brat vs. high society princess" example has all sorts of built-in contacts and assumptions about financial resources and stuff (all of which is clearly quantifiable through the rules that govern those very things, with contact ratings and the resources portion of chargen).  Same thing with a CEO, that's all about resources, and contacts, and stuff.  Right?  They're descriptors, and they describe someone's worldly power and status, as much as they do anything else.  When you call someone a Megacorp CEO or a Great Dragon, incredible amounts of power are inherent in that descriptor

Here's the disconnect, though -- none of that sort of power is actually inherent to being an immortal elf.  This is where Frosty comes in.  She doesn't have her power and influence because she's an IE, she has her power and influence because she was Harlequin's apprentice for years and years, she inherited a power focus from Dunkelzahn, she's been an active shadowrunner for decades, and because she's built up a social network (on Jackpoint, for instance, and among those other ageless movers and shakers) that matches those experiences.

When she was just an unknown bastard brat growing up in orphanages and foster homes in Missouri, and putting herself through school?  The fact she was immune to aging wasn't that big a deal.  So what's the harm in letting someone play Frosty as of twenty years ago?  Leave it up to the player and the GM to see how much, or even if, she ever gets pulled into Ehran's troubles, under Harlequin's figurative and Dunkelzahn's literal wing, etc, etc? 

I'm not saying "let someone play Harlequin."  I'm saying "if you brag about your First World survivor GMPC in the same breath you say you'd never ever let a player be immortal, it's a red light to me."  Heck, if anything, I'd think in a campaign full of First World survivors and intricate Immortal Elf power-plays, it would be even easier to insert some sort of powerless schmuck Frosty-as-a-college-kid type of character, thrust into the middle of that campaign as a catspaw without really knowing why. 
« Last Edit: <05-23-14/2005:35> by Critias »

Mirikon

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« Reply #39 on: <05-23-14/2053:44> »
Except that the reason Frosty got to be Harlequin's apprentice was because she was Ehran's daughter, which is also the reason she got taken under Big D's wing. Yes, simply being an IE didn't immediately give her power, and she did work to develop her contacts in the shadows, but being an IE gave her an 'in'. It opened doors to her that would be bricked over for anyone else. To put it another way, nothing in and of themselves makes the 'voices' of the various great dragons all that powerful. But we all know that being in a dragon's inner circle conveys an incredible amount of power in its own right. If a player wants to get their hands on that kind of power, they should earn it in some way, and work for it, not just be given an 'in' because of their parentage.
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Critias

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« Reply #40 on: <05-23-14/2102:04> »
Which is -- again -- a different part of the character sheet entirely from where one would write stuff like "immunity to age" and what-have-you.  The game already has a way to handle all that, and it's completely unrelated to happening to have a long lifespan.  There are assumptions people are making towards being an "immortal elf" that are not always accurate.  Frosty the day before she got drawn into the Ehran/Harley feud has a very different character sheet than Frosty the day after (and an even more different character sheet from Frosty in the mid 2070s).

All I'm saying is I don't see what the problem is with letting someone play Frosty the day before, where their background fluff mentions a natural aptitude for magical power, growing up missing (at least) one parent, and where their character sheet has a few Qualities that are, in all likelihood, never actually even going to come up in-game (because when was the last time one of your PCs died of old age, anyways?).

Senko

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« Reply #41 on: <05-24-14/0033:29> »
It could even be the result of a one night stand by a depressed NPC and the characters mother with them not even aware they have a child. Meanwhile I can take Sinner Corporate, claim to be the child of a high level VP dabbling in the exciting running world I saw on the trid and have the same in your talking about. Especially if I take resources A and buy a few months of luxury living instead of useful gear.

Furious Trope

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« Reply #42 on: <05-24-14/0057:38> »
It could even be the result of a one night stand by a depressed NPC and the characters mother with them not even aware they have a child. Meanwhile I can take Sinner Corporate, claim to be the child of a high level VP dabbling in the exciting running world I saw on the trid and have the same in your talking about. Especially if I take resources A and buy a few months of luxury living instead of useful gear.

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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #43 on: <05-25-14/0854:50> »
I am more and more with Critias on this one.  Remember, Mirikon, that the only reason that Immortal Elf Frosty even got a chance to become Harlequin's apprentice was because Harlequin had a very specific mad-on for her Dad.  And the only reason Harley could track her down was because Ehran did something stupid and put a magical tag he could use to track her actually inside her body.

I haven't done a build comparison of Frosty vs. potential growth stuff, so I really honestly don't know how she matches up with characters who have been running for two decades.  But presuming she hadn't gotten pulled into the chal'han (or whatever it was) ... how long would it have taken for her to get 'discovered' by the Greats and the Immortals??  Five years?  Fifteen?  Fifty?  Or five hundred??

So yeah, as a GM I'd be willing to allow a PC to toss 'Immunity to Age' in on a character sheet.  I most likely wouldn't play with that too much, unless the other players were good with going into that nest of vipers, but when you get down to it, what's the difference at this moment between a recently-born Immortal Elf and a recently-born normal elf ...??  They're both 30 or 50 years old, and they're both going to seem that age for another hundred years ...
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psycho835

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« Reply #44 on: <05-28-14/1722:08> »
Back on the subject of "passing the immortality gene": I think that in Harlequin PCs find out that Ehran has been keeping an eye out on a number of individuals (presumbly, his descendants), somehow checking for the gene and crossing them of the list. Frosty was the only one still under observation.