[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

... all of which, by 2050+, is entirely electronic.

Or not, in your game.  In general SR, though, it is.  Which is why you can make them, pretty much.

[Tarislar]

... all of which, by 2050+, is entirely electronic.

I wonder about that honestly.

Don't get me wrong, most everything we do these days is by PC.
But for legal reasons I know that our company has a paper record for almost everything as well.
To the point of keeping entire rooms of cabinets & shelves full of documents.

Maybe by 2050 they no longer have paper records of any kind, but I kinda doubt it.
Not when technomancers exist.  Not when the entire internet crashed across the world...... TWICE.
No, I'm thinking there is still a decent chance that companies-agencies keep paper trails.

But maybe that is just me.

[SlowDeck]

Tarlisar, I think it is just you on this one. Note the following is probably slightly inaccurate, but the timeline should be right.

I understand that technomancers came from otaku (still don't understand what those are), which were created by Deus and Magaera. That was very, very late 2050s into early 2060s. It's quite likely the necessary industry for large-scale mass-production of paper simply no longer exists; thus, they can't go back to hardcopy because the costs of doing so are unfeasible.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Tarlisar, I think it is just you on this one. Note the following is probably slightly inaccurate, but the timeline should be right.

I understand that technomancers came from otaku (still don't understand what those are), which were created by Deus and Magaera. That was very, very late 2050s into early 2060s. It's quite likely the necessary industry for large-scale mass-production of paper simply no longer exists; thus, they can't go back to hardcopy because the costs of doing so are unfeasible.

How frequently are your people required to delve into the old records, Tarlisar?  I know about required record-keeping; I've worked as a pharmacy tech, and you have to keep a paper prescription for seven years until you can get rid of it.  Over six years of work, I've seen my various pharmacists delve into the archives (i.e. anything more than a few months old) only once.

Companies may keep paper information, and small places might as well, but those are pure backups, stuff that isn't going to come up, even on a R6 fake SIN check, simply because asking a guy in West Podunk, IA to go check his Dead Tree Format document and waiting while he does it (if he's even there) is kind of a null starter in 2076.  And as a consequence, no shadow-group that creates fake SINs is going to bother with Dead Tree Format documentation.

Again, I'm not arguing that the paperless office is a reality - it never will be, especially not with someone like Buttercup running a major organization  - but in the theme of the 2076 SR world, it's as close as it's likely to come, at least (or especially) when it comes to ID checks.
SlowDeck, it may be easiest for you to think of otaku as the pre-wireless versions of technomancers, as deckers were to commlink hackers, and they first started appearing in canon in 2055.  They were definitely notcreated by either Deus (didn't yet exist) or Morgan/Megaera (had no interest), but for my money by Mirage/Psychotrope (had both interest and was sleeping).  All the otaku were pre-teen children, whose physical brain structure is still in a state of high adaptability until they 'firm up' as they get into their 20's.  The otaku were also universally highly-tormented children, taken in and taught by their older kin - how they originated, I have my theories, but I can't 'prove' anything, even if my theories are scarily spot-on (or so says Crimsondude).  However ...

>>>>>[ (clipped) I sure as frag wouldn't want to exchange my own childhood for life as an otaku.  But most of these kids come from slums like the Warrens and worse.  They didn't know their parents, and their only guardians before they came to the Haven were their gang-mates.  They grew up scratching out a living from dumpsters, staying one step ahead of older kids who'd kill them for whatever scraps of food they managed to scavenge.  They spent their lives avoiding adult predators who'd exploit them in all kinds of unpleasant ways.  They had no chance of education other than the kind the street provides.  They had no chance of becoming anything other than a better gutter rat.
          At the Nexus, they've got good food, a protected environment, clothes, companionship, and education.  Is that bad?  I don't know.}<<<<<
          -- Travis (23:42:38/5-28-55)

Where did the otaku come from?  The tormented, the brutalized, the fearful, the crushingly oppressed.  The unloved.  Those with no chance at even the slimmest chance.  It's my pet theory that when they plugged into the Matrix, the sleeping Mirage recognized their deep psychological scarring, and subconsciously did what she did best, what she was programmed to do - adjust them to survive better in the Matrix.  And in so adjusting, she made it so that they didn't even need cyberdecks any more: the otaku.

[Senko]

Until they got to old for her to be interested.

As said some of us WANT that datatrail on our legitimate day to day life. I'm not doing anyhing illagal officer see I spent the last month at Monsons resort as a magical security consultaf you can check my records. Which is why now I have the money i want to upgrade my legutimate fake Sin from R3 to R6 so it'll pass history checks before I got it. I don't want to go from XXX231 to XXX987 I want to improve my XXX321 to say I graduated from a magical collage in 67 and have biological samples backing that up.

I generally try to maitain a legitimate day to day not used on any jobs SIN, an equally high clean (only used to generate background data e.g. renew a license) SIN in my bolthole, 2 R2-4 Sins for jobs one sees regular use and the other is a backup for if the main job one gets burned. As well as a few R1 ones for mall surveilance and the like plus occasionally one for a specific job.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Until they got to old for her to be interested.

Errr ... no.  Until the myelin sheathing around their brains' neurons grew too established to be able to radically modify.  Pre-Crash 2.0, the otaku underwent Submersion to stave off the Fading - which basically happened as they aged past 20 years, which is about the time when scientifically the adolescent human brain becomes the adult human brain - the synapses move faster, but are much less capable of redesign.  Mirage's interest or lack thereof had nothing to do with it.  She did, after all, create five full otaku who were not subject to Fading ...

[Senko]

Twas a joke.

Although on another topic what happens if a sinless person marries someone with a corporate SIN who knows their sinless? Do they also get a full corporate SIN, a limited one, nothing?

[Whiskeyjack]

Twas a joke.

Although on another topic what happens if a sinless person marries someone with a corporate SIN who knows their sinless? Do they also get a full corporate SIN, a limited one, nothing?

The likelihood of that happening is so slim it's a snowflake case, probably a case if a shadow runner managed to seduce a Johnson or something. Good corpkids (who aren't runners) mingle with other good corpkids. They might marry for love, they might marry as an arrangement for power just as arranged marriages are (and were) conducted for literally millennia. Due to this they would typically marry other corpkids, or maybe very influential people with a National SIN.

I think you're not considering the very real bias and prejudice that "honest, upstanding, SINned" people, especially people with a prized and privileged Corporate SIN hold towards the SINless.

And even if the fringe case happened, there's no reason to believe a corp would be generous enough to give some untested rando a SIN. Marriage in America may be able to grant legal permanent residency to an alien, but there are plenty of First World countries where that's not the case, and where you can't just get on the path to citizenship that easily. And what would the corp get out of it? Very little - so why would they do it?

[ZeConster]

In the highly unlikely event that someone from a corp decides to marry a SINless, and their spouse-to-be then passes 500 hours of background checks and interrogations, it's possible the spouse would get a Corporate Limited SIN.

[Demon_Bob]

Twas a joke.

Although on another topic what happens if a sinless person marries someone with a corporate SIN who knows their sinless? Do they also get a full corporate SIN, a limited one, nothing?

The SINless would most likely receive at least a National SIN.  That way they are in the system and can be tracked.
The Corporate SIN holder would be pressured to break-off ties, accidents might be arranged, passed over for promotion, shunning, various types harassment for the former SINless.
I see it being created in a similar way as a Criminal SIN could be by the police after an arrest, just with no criminal record attached.

[SlowDeck]

Twas a joke.

Although on another topic what happens if a sinless person marries someone with a corporate SIN who knows their sinless? Do they also get a full corporate SIN, a limited one, nothing?

The SINless would most likely receive at least a National SIN.  That way they are in the system and can be tracked.
The Corporate SIN holder would be pressured to break-off ties, accidents might be arranged, passed over for promotion, shunning, various types harassment for the former SINless.
I see it being created in a similar way as a Criminal SIN could be by the police after an arrest, just with no criminal record attached.

It could also be that the marriage could be approved,  but only if the SINless agrees to work for the corporation, accepts a limited SIN, and gives up any right to quit employment (possibly enforce via cortex bomb).

[Demon_Bob]

It could also be that the marriage could be approved,  but only if the SINless agrees to work for the corporation, accepts a limited SIN, and gives up any right to quit employment (possibly enforce via cortex bomb).

That would work also, especially, it the person was the type of  the corporation would consider a valuable asset.

[Chance]

Personally, I'm glad they have left this at GM discretion. Like with cyberware upgrades. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, it just makes for a different style for your game.

[Senko]

This question brought to you by my buying and reading the season 3 misions and the end of scenario potential reward where you get a corporate SIN for your work. It got me thinking a SINleSS mage runner who did so well they literally got given a corp SIN and who posseses abilities that open doors everywhere (magic) would probably be in a good positionto negotiate a limited or better SIN for a lover/husband/wife before the gratitude fades. Then I started thinking about the way you can START with a full SIN and so to what happens to the partner. I doubt theyd arrange accidents for the partner of someone they went out of their way to recruit for their special operations skills if only because of the potential fall out should they find out.

Some very nice rewards in these (cushy governemnt job, gene optimization whatever that is, max str/agi cybernetics, any lifestyle purchase counts as the next category up, free enchanting facilities, weapons, ammo, a permanent free luxury lifestyle and of course the corp license).

Mmmmmm full corp license + free permanent luxury lifestyle + cushy government job.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Mmmmmm full corp license + free permanent luxury lifestyle + cushy government job.

Ewwww.  Try Full Corp License + Free Permanent Luxury Lifestyle + Getting to Shoot People In The Head For A Job.
In other words, the top-end corporate company man.