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Lone Star vs Knight Errant: Differences?

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tasti man LH

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« on: <03-01-14/0650:44> »
So these two privatized cop organizations are typically going to be the main  opposition that runners will typically face, obviously in NorthAm and of course Seattle.

That said...are there really any noticeable differences between the two?

On the surface they look like the same cops, just with a different badge. But they've got to have different methods on how they do things, and I'm pretty sure runners would have their preferences on who they would rather deal with over the other. Because if not, otherwise there's no point on having two different companies if they're more or less the same.

While as of this post, I haven't finished reading it but I really dug the old Lone Star sourcebook and how it broke down how each department of Lone Star work, their different procedures, and of course lots and lots of stat blocks for each kind of member. A bit useless to me since I've been running a 4th edition campaign, and currently have no intention of running any older editions. One particular sourcebook that's on my dream list is for something similar to the Lone Star book but extensively covers Knight Errant instead.

So...what are the major similarities and differences between the two? And if you've run any game that involved both the Star and KE, how did you showcase the differences between the two?

And if there's any existing material that outlines the differences, any help would be great. :)
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psycho835

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« Reply #1 on: <03-01-14/1143:57> »
Well, for one, KE doesn't get along with DocWagon, something about "interference" I think.

Redman

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« Reply #2 on: <03-01-14/1325:32> »
I believe one prefers creme and the other jam in their donuts.

Sendaz

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« Reply #3 on: <03-01-14/1341:32> »
KE is still a subsidiary of Ares, a full AAA megacorp, with all that goes with that while LS is still ranked AA if I recall.

May seem minor, but long term effects may tell.. 

KE should have better access to gear, maybe even some prototypes for field testing.

Likewise killing KE personnel means killing Ares personnel and while thumbing our noses at the corps is standard, just keep in mind if you make enough of a splash, it could come back to haunt you when a Johnson turns out to be working for Ares and they set you up for an ambush.

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #4 on: <03-01-14/1604:47> »
As far as I can gather from Season 4, Knight Errant is a bit higher skilled, a bit more professional, a bit less scummy and a decent bit less racist. On general I'd put them as 1 PR higher.
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Reaver

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« Reply #5 on: <03-01-14/1611:46> »
As far as I can gather from Season 4, Knight Errant is a bit higher skilled, a bit more professional, a bit less scummy and a decent bit less racist. On general I'd put them as 1 PR higher.


pretty much this.

Lone Star was the "hillbilly" police force. If you didn't match the officer's ideal for  metahuman (IE: troll or ork), chances are they would beat the crap out of you, instead of take a statement.

Knight Errant is more professional, and clean cut then LS. Add to the fact they are backed by a AAA, and you have a much bigger resource pool for the toys, like drones, spirits, and, you know, actual police work.
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Nath

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« Reply #6 on: <03-01-14/1725:08> »
Lone Star Security Services was created by a texan businessman by the merger of a handful of physical and network security companies. Its growth was fed by privatization of North American municipal polices. If Seattle Police Department can serve as an example, they hired a lot of cops who were layed off by the department they were replacing.

The Lone Star sourcebook also says the UCAS governement dismantled the DEA and sold its databases and some hardware to LSSS, who also recruited some personnels. However, later books mentionned the DEA as still up and running.

Knight Errant Security Services, on the other hand, was created from scratch by Damien Knight when he become CEO of the Ares Macrotechnology group and decided to strengthen the megacorporation in the defense and security fields. The typical profile for KE exec is ex-military from either the UCAS, CAS or NAN.

So if I was to make these corporations feel different, LSSS would be "cops an feds with yield management" while KE would be more "national guard was paid to come to your neighbourhood."

CanRay

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« Reply #7 on: <03-01-14/1755:59> »
Lone Star also got a lot of Canadian Police Departments, including the Mounties apparently.

But, yes, they're typically the Hillbilly Racist Cops that are always hated on, while Knight Errant is more an all-accepting jackbooted thug that is less liked because they're much more efficient and equipped.
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Nath

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« Reply #8 on: <03-01-14/1813:17> »
Lone Star also got a lot of Canadian Police Departments, including the Mounties apparently.
French-speaking mounties only. Gendarmerie du Québec is a subsidiary of Lone Star Security Services. It likely merged the Sûreté du Québec with what Quebec got of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police/Gendarmerie Royale du Canada "C division" when it seceded.

The rest of the Mounties were merged with the US Marshals when the remaining Canadian states joined the UCAS.

BetaCAV

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« Reply #9 on: <03-01-14/1842:57> »
So if I was to make these corporations feel different, LSSS would be "cops an feds with yield management" while KE would be more "national guard was paid to come to your neighbourhood."
;D
It's hard to add to that, much less follow it, but here's my  ¥0.02...

LSSS will often roll in with a mobile command post, and a roadmaster or two of backup. Someone(s) with field experience will coordinate operations and logistics. Leads will be analyzed as they are obtained and teams will be rerouted accordingly eventually. They will stagger shift changes to prevent knowledge going off-duty, which was/is an identified risk. Dispatches are often prioritized by sideline profit. Rush orders get billed extra, and if someone needs immediate assistance, they should have called Crashcart instead. Or paid more.

KE establishes (i.e. clears) a perimiter, around a defensible but acessible position, and set up a local HQ, complete with drone overwatch, HMGs at the entrances, their own grid, and magical screening of secure areas... depending on how long they expect to stay.  Many, many truckloads of goons then arrive, and anyone not busy shuffling bits of AR goes out kicking in doors with Ares' most recent products. Maybe some that aren't on the market yet, depending on what (or who) they're looking for.


LSSS teams are potentially more susceptible to bribes, if you can offer them enough to make it worth their while to come back in 15 minutes... unless there's an Internal Affairs Officer present, which they may know, but runners probably won't, until the credsticks are pocketed.

KE troops are probably more likely to take a bribe, individually, but you will probably be dealing with three times as many of them on any given occasion, so it's both riskier and more expensive. On the plus side, they are also generally less likely to taze you for looking meta, but will be more prepared for a confrontation.

Neither one is particularly concerned with collateral damage, or missing non-evidentiary items. Their contract covers that.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #10 on: <03-02-14/0811:19> »
Nath and BetaCAV have good descriptions, I think, though I'd like to point out something else.

Knight Errant started out as corporate security, generally recruited from ex-armed forces: "This is Ares property, please depart the premesis."  They'll be polite to the customer until it is time for them to no longer be polite; then they'll shoot to kill.  These are ex-Army and ex-Marines given courtesy training and well-defined parameters of how far they're supposed to allow 'the customer' to go, after which point they'll have no problem putting the now-perp down hard.  They have a book they're trained to, and they'll stick to it very firmly, because they never know if they're going to get transfered from an Ares corporate facility to the back end of Podunk, IA.  Everyone in a city with whom KE has a contract is a customer, until they cross the line; then they're a target.  Taking prisoners is encouraged, but you can't guarantee a prisoner in a firefight.  Your archetypical KE officer is young, fit, square-jawed, and ready to fire an SMG or assault rifle with speed and accuracy; depending on patrol area, they at least have one of these in the cabin of their patrol vehicle, if not brought with them in a combat-carry position.  He spends his on-shift downtime at the "precinct house" in the gym with the rest of the team lifting weights. 

Now, while Lone Star has a book that they're trained to as well, a large number of the people who were originally recruited into the company were (as has been pointed out) recently-discharged cops - which means the corporate culture is that of 'police officer'.  Cops are trained to a much looser idea of offenses, as it were - instead of a binary 'friend/enemy' solution, it's more of a digital 'where you fall on the citizen/perp scale'.  They aren't cops, but they tend to think like cops.  They're almost always going to be providing security for a community, even if that community is only a gated collection of well-to-do houses; security for a corporate facility is waaaay down on their client list.  Your archetypical LS officer is older, a little (or maybe a lot) out of shape, looks a little soft and/or friendly (well, if you're an upright human citizen), and will tend to go for the heavy pistol riding on his hip.  He has a shotgun, sure, but it's in the trunk of his patrol car, and he only gets it out if he really has to.  He spends his on-shift downtime in a social situation either with his compatriots (at a bar or in the precinct room) or the public (in a diner/restaurant/donut shop) shooting the bull and decompressing.

As Nath said - LS is more coplike; KE is more akin to a military force 'filling in' as cops.  KE gets seen as being more professional, but what that actually tends to mean is that you get the big-brother vibe turned up a notch or two.
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tasti man LH

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« Reply #11 on: <03-02-14/1636:16> »
Hmmm...so taking all of his in consideration, KE  is overall the bigger threat to a runner then Star? And presumably, in a straight up fight between the two in a firefight, KE would come out on top due to better training, better discipline, and better equipment?
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #12 on: <03-02-14/1638:55> »
Pretty much, but when you get a firefight between Lone Star and Knight Errant, while the two only act in areas where they're contracted and each area will only get one company contracted, something has gone HORRIBLY wrong.
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Bewilderbeast

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« Reply #13 on: <03-02-14/1759:16> »
Pretty much, but when you get a firefight between Lone Star and Knight Errant, while the two only act in areas where they're contracted and each area will only get one company contracted, something has gone HORRIBLY wrong.
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witchdoctor

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« Reply #14 on: <03-02-14/1900:59> »
Pretty much, but when you get a firefight between Lone Star and Knight Errant, while the two only act in areas where they're contracted and each area will only get one company contracted, something has gone HORRIBLY wrong.

Or horribly right. One run my group did involved hitting a Lone Star data archive that was in a building that hilariously enough had a KE guard in the lobby. Not 10 minutes later my team has the pay data and is on our way out when we pass two back up units, one with KE and the other with Lone Star. No idea exactly what happened with that but it was no doubt hilarious considering KE and Lone Star do not like each other one bit.