[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Playing security corporations against each other has a long and honorable history.  There is little that one corporation wants more than to make another look bad, in order to take over a contract.  What I would admittedly like to see is for LS to get the Seattle contract back because KE becomes a little too Big Brother in how they handle the contract.  Not that LS would be great in the Ork Underground ...

[Michael Chandra]

I'm fine with KE losing contracts elsewhere to LS, which is already happening. And besides, Brackhaven would never get LS get back in town, given how they were trying to dig up the info that now put him in front of a Grand Jury.

[Reaver]

amazing how that happened huh?

Kciks out LS to save his ass.... only to end up having the dirt dug up by KE....

[Michael Chandra]

Technically that was Project Freedom getting awfully close with the A.D.A. ^_^ The irony here is that the A.D.A. that most wanted the Ork Underground to be dealt with, is now working together with them against Brackhaven.

[Mithlas]

Likewise killing KE personnel means killing Ares personnel and while thumbing our noses at the corps is standard, just keep in mind if you make enough of a splash, it could come back to haunt you when a Johnson turns out to be working for Ares and they set you up for an ambush.

Indeed. Killing government employees (and megacorps are practically governments) is seen as spitting at those organizations. Most don't like that - the Romans labeled them as thieves (because they were 'stealing Roman prestige') and publicly executed them.

Lone Star was the "hillbilly" police force. If you didn't match the officer's ideal for  metahuman (IE: troll or ork), chances are they would beat the crap out of you, instead of take a statement.

Lone Star is and has been geared for longer as general policing and taking care of mundane matters. As far as awakened threats I'd imagine they're both roughly equally competent (or incompetent). KE has more possible support in technological aspects due to being a major part of a AAA, but they also have more of a history as an Ares-keeper and less as the "good cops on the street". I went looking and didn't find any evidence beyond the Night of Rage Mayan Cutter which as I believe is the event that eventually led to LS being sacked from Seattle. KE is probably better trained in combat but also less likely to be out and about for the general populace - the difference may not be massive, but it's going to be there to one degree or another (and obviously varying from place to place).

...typically the Hillbilly Racist Cops that are always hated on, while Knight Errant is more an all-accepting jackbooted thug

LS basically having less psych screening against meta-haters, while KE had more screening to draw in folks who'd beat a Dwarf or an Ork equally readily?

Knight Errant started out as corporate security, generally recruited from ex-armed forces: "This is Ares property, please depart the premesis."

...the corporate culture is that of 'police officer'.  Cops are trained to a much looser idea of offenses, as it were - instead of a binary 'friend/enemy' solution, it's more of a digital 'where you fall on the citizen/perp scale'.

You put it even better than I think I could. In any case, that's all I can think of to mention.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

I went looking and didn't find any evidence beyond the Night of Rage which as I believe is the event that eventually led to LS being sacked from Seattle.

Ummm... the Metroplex Guard was responsible for the events of the Night of Rage in Seattle.  Indeed, how is an event in early 2039 responsible for the organization falling out with their employer in late 2071, over thirty years later?  The Mayan Cutter and Tempo are the two big reasons LS lost the contract.

...typically the Hillbilly Racist Cops that are always hated on, while Knight Errant is more an all-accepting jackbooted thug

LS basically having less psych screening against meta-haters, while KE had more screening to draw in folks who'd beat a Dwarf or an Ork equally readily?

More like LS is mostly humans and will kick meta ass out of habit ("he looked guilty to me, sir") while KE will hire all metahumans and basically kick the ass of anyone who isn't THEMSELVES.  (Or the asses of those whom they've been hired to kick, guilty or not.)

[Mithlas]

Oops, wrong event. Thanks for the correction. In any case, neither have much to worry given their ability to presume guilt against the little guy.

[psycho835]

KE is probably better trained in combat but also less likely to be out and about for the general populace - the difference may not be massive, but it's going to be there to one degree or another (and obviously varying from place to place).

Thus, more work for us. Yay! 

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Well, I disagree on the thought that KE is less likely to be 'out and about for* the general populace'.  (* - Is that meant to be 'in/among'?)  When CanRay mentioned 'all-accepting jackbooted thug', and how I anticipate KE's increased affect on Seattle happening, it would be more akin to Ares/KE pressuring the Metroplex for more money for an increased presence, due to whatever reason(s) - the Ork Underground, whatever - and basically becoming more and more restrictive in everyday life to the average citizen, perhaps 'in order to stop the shadowrunner menace'.

This would also mean more work for shadowrunners, but it'd also make things somewhat more difficult to get things done ...

[Reaver]

Well, I disagree on the thought that KE is less likely to be 'out and about for* the general populace'.  (* - Is that meant to be 'in/among'?)  When CanRay mentioned 'all-accepting jackbooted thug', and how I anticipate KE's increased affect on Seattle happening, it would be more akin to Ares/KE pressuring the Metroplex for more money for an increased presence, due to whatever reason(s) - the Ork Underground, whatever - and basically becoming more and more restrictive in everyday life to the average citizen, perhaps 'in order to stop the shadowrunner menace'.

This would also mean more work for shadowrunners, but it'd also make things somewhat more difficult to get things done ...

the only issue there Wyrm is the contract. The contract says that KE will enforce UCAS law through out the city. So they are stuck with all those laws that make law enforcement difficult (freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, etc). The only person that can override those laws is the governor with a "state of emergency" address... but those are limited in time (can not be sustained indefinitely).

In short, regardless of how much KE wants the "rules" changed, they can't just change them willy-nilly, in fact they have no control over the laws at all! They simply enforce them. 

[CanRay]

Knight Errant:  The Equal Opportunity Exploiter. 

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

the only issue there Wyrm is the contract. The contract says that KE will enforce UCAS law through out the city. So they are stuck with all those laws that make law enforcement difficult (freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, etc). The only person that can override those laws is the governor with a "state of emergency" address... but those are limited in time (can not be sustained indefinitely).

In short, regardless of how much KE wants the "rules" changed, they can't just change them willy-nilly, in fact they have no control over the laws at all! They simply enforce them.

Ah, an innocent.  So rare these days.

Now, just to give you some broad strokes, using the USA's theoretical governmental structure, we have Legislative Branch (Congress) passing laws, the Executive Branch (the various Departments, culminating in the Office of the President) enforcing those laws, and the Judicial Branch (Federal Judges, culminating in the US Supreme Court) adjudicating possible violations of those laws.  What happens is that if there is a law that the People oppose and bring suit against, the Supreme Court can rule unconstitutional and negate, or if the President opposes (but his veto is overriden) a law, he can choose how vigorously, if at all, to enforce it.  This happens right up to and including the Constitution and the Amendments itself.

During Prohibition, beat cops stood around nodding while watching street speeches and sales of ingredients for 'health remedies' that gave specific 'advice on how to make sure you don't accidentally make bathtub gin', when they knew it was exactly the opposite - letter of the law followed, spirit of the law violated left and right and in front of their face, in part because they were making bathtub gin themselves.  There are currently so many laws, rules, and regulations that many of them are simply ignored, because you'd need a supercomputer to be able to figure out how many were being violated within your vision just driving down the street.  But if a Police Chief, or District Attourney, or Mayor, or Governor is wanting to look 'strict on X', then X gets really cracked down on.

So it would be - should be, and probably is, at least in most games - in SR.  However, consider that all those laws are still on the books.  KE doesn't need to change the rules - they only need to decide which ones they want to really enforce.  And if they wanted to - since they are contractually obliged to enforce all the laws - they could turn whatever public zone they have an enforcement contract for into an uncomfortable place to exist indeed.

Just in Seattle, for example: Spitting on a bus?  Ticket.  A woman sitting on a man’s lap on a bus or train without placing a pillow between them?  Automatic six-month jail term.  Up in Everett?  It's against the law to feed the ducks.

So it isn't a matter of being restricted; it's a matter of whether or not KE wants to be 100% total dicks.  They can find the laws that allow them.  And even just normally, hell, jaywalking is a ticketable offense ...

[psycho835]

Just in Seattle, for example: Spitting on a bus?  Ticket.  A woman sitting on a man’s lap on a bus or train without placing a pillow between them?  Automatic six-month jail term. Up in Everett?  It's against the law to feed the ducks.

What.

[CanRay]

Just in Seattle, for example: Spitting on a bus?  Ticket.  A woman sitting on a man’s lap on a bus or train without placing a pillow between them?  Automatic six-month jail term. Up in Everett?  It's against the law to feed the ducks.

What.

Lots of weird/stupid laws are still on the books, and more are even being made today.

I remember a law that was passed that made Internet Cafes illegal by mistake.

[Reaver]

the only issue there Wyrm is the contract. The contract says that KE will enforce UCAS law through out the city. So they are stuck with all those laws that make law enforcement difficult (freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, etc). The only person that can override those laws is the governor with a "state of emergency" address... but those are limited in time (can not be sustained indefinitely).

In short, regardless of how much KE wants the "rules" changed, they can't just change them willy-nilly, in fact they have no control over the laws at all! They simply enforce them.

Ah, an innocent.  So rare these days.

Now, just to give you some broad strokes, using the USA's theoretical governmental structure, we have Legislative Branch (Congress) passing laws, the Executive Branch (the various Departments, culminating in the Office of the President) enforcing those laws, and the Judicial Branch (Federal Judges, culminating in the US Supreme Court) adjudicating possible violations of those laws.  What happens is that if there is a law that the People oppose and bring suit against, the Supreme Court can rule unconstitutional and negate, or if the President opposes (but his veto is overriden) a law, he can choose how vigorously, if at all, to enforce it.  This happens right up to and including the Constitution and the Amendments itself.

During Prohibition, beat cops stood around nodding while watching street speeches and sales of ingredients for 'health remedies' that gave specific 'advice on how to make sure you don't accidentally make bathtub gin', when they knew it was exactly the opposite - letter of the law followed, spirit of the law violated left and right and in front of their face, in part because they were making bathtub gin themselves.  There are currently so many laws, rules, and regulations that many of them are simply ignored, because you'd need a supercomputer to be able to figure out how many were being violated within your vision just driving down the street.  But if a Police Chief, or District Attourney, or Mayor, or Governor is wanting to look 'strict on X', then X gets really cracked down on.

So it would be - should be, and probably is, at least in most games - in SR.  However, consider that all those laws are still on the books.  KE doesn't need to change the rules - they only need to decide which ones they want to really enforce.  And if they wanted to - since they are contractually obliged to enforce all the laws - they could turn whatever public zone they have an enforcement contract for into an uncomfortable place to exist indeed.

Just in Seattle, for example: Spitting on a bus?  Ticket.  A woman sitting on a man’s lap on a bus or train without placing a pillow between them?  Automatic six-month jail term.  Up in Everett?  It's against the law to feed the ducks.

So it isn't a matter of being restricted; it's a matter of whether or not KE wants to be 100% total dicks.  They can find the laws that allow them.  And even just normally, hell, jaywalking is a ticketable offense ...

you are forgetting two important things:

First it's the United Canadian American States   Canadian laws run a little differently but yes, you have the giest of it.

But you forgot that, there is also "invalided" laws as well. These are laws the courts have struck down for a variety of reasons (dated is the most often one, or conflict with other laws, etc) There is no point in trying to enforce a law that the courts have deemed invalid (for whatever reason) as this just costs the system time and money. But this is all besides the point as you missed mine.


Just cause KE steps in as the new police force doesn't mean the entire legal system gets a rewrite. They can not stop people from gathering in numbers, or speaking out about an injustice. Or invade your home without a warrant (if you have a SIN). In short, they have to follow the laws guidelines laid out by the UCAS, and just can "make it up as they go". Sure they can adjust resources and use legal means to target sections of the illegal community.... but they just can't (for example) shoot every car thief on the justification that they are stopping auto crime. But they could use more bait cars, drone ID survailance, random police stops, patrols, or any other LEGAL means to make it harder on car thieves (including giving vehicle owners tickets for not locking their doors!)


In short, it's "the same game against a different team" rather than entirely different game.