[Boomstick]

Sorry, forgot that.
@Bannockburn; sorry too for the misquote.

I take it you haven't had a chance to read the book yet? It's something of a paradigm shift from previous editions, so it's hard to respond to your questions without rewriting the stuff in the book.

Should I take that for being right about pointing some of these things? If you really had to rewrite things, that would mean it would not stand up...

Most of how the New New Matrix works isn't in the book, and it may or may not be explained in a future book,

Explaining too much is a way to shoot yourself indeed, but with so much change I guess a solid explanation at least for basic matrix theory would be as welcome it was about the basic magic theory for aura and spells and so on.

but here's what I understand of it, for what it's worth. The Matrix was designed to be as safe to the user as walking in a AAA-security Downtown area. As such, devices on the Matrix utilize a lot of distributed computing, since it's "safe" to share, and data security can be easily done with proper encryption (thus the Firewall boosting program). When you have all of the devices within a click or so helping out, computing speeds increase exponentially.

I actually love the idea of distributed computing. Not sure thought that in a cyberpunk world, the large host would not be able to intercept the packets they are distributed to (or just in range to receive. Wires have this advantage that you decide mostly to whom you send these, and relays are usually safe. Wireless is not. So they might intercept it, and try and use them to gain info, so that would probably be something serious people would avoid to configure as an option. Let's face it, a businessman don't need so much processing power that he needs to make is agenda hackable and is life not even worth pennies by pulling security breaches large like the Tranquillity Sea into his corp.
The first sin of security is "bring your own device", and the second is "make it wireless". Even crypted, since people are able to hack device, they would be able to decrypt packets. Hosts would do it in a matter of seconds. And I don't believe the corps would see that with a bad eye, given that data is info, power and blackmail (even more power)..

Also, distributed computing is not of any help in some cases: wired reflexes were just more conductive than nervous fibers, hence messages went faster. plus a bunch of adrenaline stimulators. And Reaction enhancers were replacements in the spine, If I am correct. So how distributed computing help there, in the improvement of the conductivity of these implants?

I actually think the idea is great. And the time of price and reward and risk is also. But by giving more opportunity to players to find their own risks and rewards instead of sometimes pushing it into their throat (I don't know if it was deliberate or just how it feels -no disrespect intended but I am not alone there, some people used words like convoluted explanations or shoehorned ...) so they can't really appreciate it and discuss it to what it is worth, you would have made a better decision, IMHO.
And it is a pity cause the rest of new ideas can usually be great in game.

We didn't forget. It may return in an expansion book somewhere.  It may need retooled first though.

Well, that would have been one of the first thing to do, but indeed it would break a lot of the new things you would like people to get used to.
So it is less a need of retooling (SR5 was not written in a day) and more a practical way to give people no chance to shift from the paradigm "wireless risk/reward", even when it is done in a wrong way (yes, I said it, indeed, I only take it for my opinion only and not for absolute truth. But seems like I am not alone and there is a lot of logic reasons in why I don't like so much most implementations we have been shown -while, I admit that could be the only wrong examples in the system, with good things everywhere else. I would just wish it. That would be the best case)

[RHat]

Let's consider, for a second, that such hate only comes from a fairly small quarter.

I'm curious where you get that assumption from.

I'm not saying that I have better numbers, but I can say at least that I have met no one yet who's totally on board with all those always online bonuses.
The general consensus in my environment is "would be nifty if it were a real choice, but the implementation feels shoehorned to the extreme".

That's my anecdotal evidence. Where's yours? Did you poll a significant number of people or is that just an opinion on a similar basis to mine?

You know, I thought it was clear that I was referring to the whole thing with the XB1, there, but I suppose not.

[bannockburn]

Ah, I'm sorry. Misunderstanding, then.

Personally I didn't follow that discussion, but my impression was that this was a huge PR disaster for Microsoft? Isn't that a fairly big quarter?

[PeterSmith]

That's a lot of consideration for feedback.

Just because a change is not enacted does not mean the feedback was ignored. It just means that the matter at hand was not changed.

[RHat]

Ah, I'm sorry. Misunderstanding, then.

Personally I didn't follow that discussion, but my impression was that this was a huge PR disaster for Microsoft? Isn't that a fairly big quarter?

It's a quarter that believes itself to be more important to the games industry than it is.  "News" sites that cater to that group make a big deal of it, but in the mainstream the reaction is highly positive.

[Aaron]

Sorry, Boomstick. When I said "rewrite" I meant "copy" and not "alter."

[bannockburn]

Whelp, I'm not gonna buy the spybox. Wouldn't have either way, but that doesn't help its case

But back to topic, this is way out there.

[BlackJaw]

but here's what I understand of it, for what it's worth. The Matrix was designed to be as safe to the user as walking in a AAA-security Downtown area. As such, devices on the Matrix utilize a lot of distributed computing, since it's "safe" to share, and data security can be easily done with proper encryption (thus the Firewall boosting program). When you have all of the devices within a click or so helping out, computing speeds increase exponentially.

Although I don't have a copy of the rules to look at, from what I've been reading in message board posts the whole "distributed computing" concept was the feeling I was getting for Wireless bonuses.  It sounds a lot like the corps have off-loaded some functions of gear into the cloud, because "The Matrix is Safe Now (TM)" and it would also have all sorts of DRM and Metadata advantages for them.

I actually love the idea of distributed computing. Not sure thought that in a cyberpunk world, the large host would not be able to intercept the packets they are distributed to (or just in range to receive. Wires have this advantage that you decide mostly to whom you send these, and relays are usually safe. Wireless is not. So they might intercept it, and try and use them to gain info, so that would probably be something serious people would avoid to configure as an option. Let's face it, a businessman don't need so much processing power that he needs to make is agenda hackable and is life not even worth pennies by pulling security breaches large like the Tranquillity Sea into his corp.

The first sin of security is "bring your own device", and the second is "make it wireless". Even crypted, since people are able to hack device, they would be able to decrypt packets. Hosts would do it in a matter of seconds.

Well the "Matrix is Safe Now (TM)" so there wasn't a lot of concern that thing would get hacked.  Apparently that's wrong, because Deckers can hack gear in a matter of seconds now, but doing so also attracts the Matrix OverWatch goons to come dumpshock him, so by some definitions, it's still somewhat safe.   Also, in real life, people leave security holes in all sorts of stuff they'd be smart not to.  Many real world internet companies use a webmail setup for their internal e-mail, even on wifi enabled laptops, and hell, there are real life examples of pace makers being hackable.  Reality is stranger than fiction.

Also, distributed computing is not of any help in some cases: wired reflexes were just more conductive than nervous fibers, hence messages went faster. plus a bunch of adrenaline stimulators. And Reaction enhancers were replacements in the spine, If I am correct. So how distributed computing help there, in the improvement of the conductivity of these implants?

I figure, and I have no text to back this concept up,  the reason that Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enhancers work better together when on wireless isn't that wireless is some how faster, or that street docs don't bother to plug the two system into each other, but that there is a cloud computer app somewhere they hook into that does a bunch of pattern recognition on the user's movements and detected threats and optimizes the performance of both systems so they aren't getting in each others way, possbily providing AR guides indicating optimal dodge directions or threat vectors.   "Now with Ares QuickDraw Network (TM)"

I can make up similar concepts for most of the wireless bonuses I've seen so far. (Again, I don't have a book)  So those goggles that give a perception bonus when on wifi are using Evo's O.W.L.Sight Image Recognition Network, etc.  It might be a bit silly, but it fits the rules about needing to be connected to the Matrix to get bonuses.   I still don't know why you need a special internet app to have faster chemical seal activation, so the distributed computing explanation isn't perfect, but it's less silly than the "internet is magic"  strawman argument. 

I'm not necessarily sold on the concept being a good fit for Shadowrun, but it's apparently here whether we like it or not.

I just hope this concept isn't taken to the conclusion that registered software in 4th ed was, and make it possible for Corps to track or locate you after a run by looking at the gear use logs unless you jump through 9 kinds of hell to anonymize your gear's wireless bonuses.  I really didn't like having to constantly patch all my software (cracked, open source, or even self-coded) every month or two in order to avoid rating decay.  It was a lot of trouble to keep accounting of for a software orientated character in order to avoid tracking bonuses for using legitimate "registered" software being used in a hack.

Honestly what I find interesting about this "distributed computing" concept of Wireless bonuses  is that it limits Street Sams (among others) in Wifi negated areas, which reminds me of Adepts loosing abilities in Background counts.  I think there is a quote from the book (SR5, page 421) earlier in this thread that says: "When an item has additional functionality when connected to the Matrix, it's described under the "Wireless" entry in the item's description. This functionality only applies when the device has access to the Matrix, is most of the time unless your gamemaster says otherwise, like if you've entered a wireless static zone. If there is a Noise Rating from a situation that is greater than the item's Device Rating, not including distance, the item temporarily loses it's wireless functionality."  If you loose your wifi connection some of your abilities don't work as well as normal (assuming you have the wifi on in the first place.)

[Critias]

Allow me to doubt that.

I understand that there's a language barrier that makes some of your posts, perhaps, more aggressive and hostile than you intend for them to be.  I also know you clearly hold some pretty strong opinions, as we've discovered in the past, and possess an impressive sense of certainty regardless of the topic being discussed, at times.  So maybe there's just some sort of misunderstanding going on, here, and in a minute we'll all laugh about it and your post will make perfect sense when read some other way.

But can you do me a favor here, and try to help me figure out any way to read this that isn't you just straight-up calling Bull a liar? 

Thanks.

[Boomstick]

Sorry, Boomstick. When I said "rewrite" I meant "copy" and not "alter."

MY bad, so much for me;)

I understand that there's a language barrier that makes some of your posts, perhaps, more aggressive and hostile than you intend for them to be

I just mean to be frank.  No, not that Frank, put down this firethrower and this grenade belt;)
Sometimes, it makes me mean at the same time, and I am sorry of that, but if I go through saying such things I think that it is worth it.

I also know you clearly hold some pretty strong opinions, as we've discovered in the past, and possess an impressive sense of certainty regardless of the topic being discussed, at times.

"regardless of the topic being discussed"? Maybe you have been too startled by my first posts then, cause actually there were a lot of things I could discuss normally. I am culprit of becoming a little ironic when people try to justify thing not logic for me. I am also fine with admitting I am wrong. I even like it, as so I found a way to extend my reasoning.

So maybe there's just some sort of misunderstanding going on, here, and in a minute we'll all laugh about it and your post will make perfect sense when read some other way.

But can you do me a favor here, and try to help me figure out any way to read this that isn't you just straight-up calling Bull a liar? 

Well, I guess you won't laugh so hard because I said this with intents, quoted before. And my intents won't please you. But I did not mean that Bull is a liar. I think he was perfectly good faith and that actually, this is usually intended around in development team. Just that the thing I quoted was a fact, which showed that reality differed from that good faith intent. That I was pointing out. Not for calling him a liar but for reminding him some sentence I felt that was not to much appropriate for someone stating that.
As I pointed out, I like Irony. Also I admit that is easy to take a sentence out of context but it was well meaning what I quoted. The rest of my reasons saying that were in my previous post:

Allow me to doubt that. When a lot of good point have been made about some things you were, as a development team, really proud of as that was the part of the game you created yourself, well, we got a "take over it, now it is done and you can't change it". That's a lot of consideration for feedback. No grudge held there. But I felt I had to remind some points there, cause I don't have too short memory when I read thing like that pissing me off to such extent (I was not even concerned, actually, I believe, but I felt it was astonishing, in the wrong sense).

I thought that as if I am right, Bull has good faith about that, then pointing out something like that would show him that sometimes he has a little strayed from that position, so in a thread partly about that, this is not so evident.

Thanks.

You're welcome.
Also, I would not have minded Bull asking.

[All4BigGuns]

Ah, I'm sorry. Misunderstanding, then.

Personally I didn't follow that discussion, but my impression was that this was a huge PR disaster for Microsoft? Isn't that a fairly big quarter?

It's a quarter that believes itself to be more important to the games industry than it is.  "News" sites that cater to that group make a big deal of it, but in the mainstream the reaction is highly positive.

Positive from those who don't realize just how much privacy that they could lose from such a device. A microphone and camera on your video game console that are "always on" presents a HUGE security risk. There's absolutely nothing stopping MS from stealthing an activation routine into a patch that would allow anyone with the proper passcodes (which they would then provide to organizations like the NSA) from viewing and listening to anything going on in your living room.

[RHat]

I never made a comment on the privacy issues and other problems at play, Guns.  I'm simply noting that despite those issues, and the reactions of the "core gamer", the console will still do quite well - and I bring that much up only because it is relevant to the discussion at hand, as some people seem to be thinking that it wouldn't be feasible to produce and market these always online devices.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-80-microsoft-reverses-xbox-one-drm-features/

Now, back to Shadowrun, I think...  we're just going to have to wait for the book to come out.  For all of these threads, the same answer applies.  It's nice and all for those super-few that have it to share tidbits, but they haven't shown it all.  That means we(the rest) have no real basis for our opinions.  We're guessing.

[Bull]

I can reply for myself, but was actually out working all afternoon and evening.

But hey, since you don't trust anything I say, that's cool.  I can stop wasting time trying to answer questions, explain reasons for stuff, and spend that couple hours a day I've been wasting here on paying writing and work.  Excellent.  Have fun.

[Daedalus]

Bull, I for one appreciate everything your doing. Your work, both with missions, and with keeping us abreast of 5e info is valuable to me and I and my friends thank you for your time and effort.