[Shinobi Killfist]

Let's consider, for a second, that such hate only comes from a fairly small quarter.

I'm curious where you get that assumption from.

I'm not saying that I have better numbers, but I can say at least that I have met no one yet who's totally on board with all those always online bonuses.
The general consensus in my environment is "would be nifty if it were a real choice, but the implementation feels shoehorned to the extreme".

That's my anecdotal evidence. Where's yours? Did you poll a significant number of people or is that just an opinion on a similar basis to mine?

I'm going to say it was probably a representative answer based on the responses to it at Origins. I would be very surprised if Catalyst's reps at Origins didn't pay attention to the players' responses when they had players in front of them.

Incidentally, my anecdotal evidence has all been, "We'll see how it shakes out in play, but for now it looks fine."

-Ariketh

Midwest con gamer is probably not a represenative sample.

But yeah we will see how it shakes out in play.  My guess is it pans out like this though.  Do you have a GM that will hack your shit, if answer is yes they are always off, if the answer is no outside plot points wireless is on.  I don't think in play people will be making the risk reward deciison it will be a more universal table decision based on the GMs atyle.  So we will see large swaths of people "loving it" because their GM just never uses the rule, and other large swaths "being haters" because their GM uses hackers. Large swath group 2 will probably end up houseruling it away. 

[bannockburn]

To clarify: I'm not on the fence. Not too much, anyways ... Some bonuses may be stupid, while others could fit the setting and be cool. I also say: Wait and see.
But most people I know (and I know a lot of people playing SR over here) were, at the very least very skeptical if it could be pulled off in the mostly cool area.

[Bull]

Midwest con gamer is probably not a represenative sample.

It is FAR more representative than these forums, to be honest.

[bannockburn]

I tend to agree in that, Bull.

But I dislike blanket statements like "Well, you're in the minority" coming from unconfirmed sources.

[Wildcard]

Small sample size, regression to the mean, etc.

Put simply : Speak for yourself. Claiming anecdotal evidence to be more "pure" or "true" is silly.

[Bull]

We take and consider input from all sources.  We get feedback from the forums, from conventions we do (Large and small, and considering we had several hundred players at Origins, t wasn't that small , and we get input from the Catalyst Demo Team agents who are out running events at their local game store.  Plus our own experiences at the table (or over skype, in my case, since I'm now in the middle of nowhere and in a gaming dead zone).

We just have to weigh the input versus it's source.  The Internet often acts as a bit of an echo-chamber, where a half dozen individuals make thousands of posts, so their voices are much louder, but they may or may not actually reflect the opinions of the fanbase.  Especially since often the loudest fans tend to reinforce each others opinions.

Anyway, off topic, back to discussing wilreless bonuses and such.

BUll

[tequila]

"Cassual shadowrunner"

LOL!  That's great.  Need to fit that into my new character somehow.

[Medicineman]

. For example, your gun is skinlinked to your commlink

Just as a note...  There's no SKinlink is the SR5 Core Rulebook

Bull

One of my Chars bought some 100 Packages of Skinlink End of December 2074
Iths still fresh and unused
Want some, need some ?
or more seriously :
something that already existed INGAME will not disappear just because You (not You personally but CGL ) forgot to include it in the BBB

with an unforgotten Dance
Medicineman

[Medicineman]

one more Question :
wasn't it Your (CGL's) big Argument that You wanted to lessen the Influence of Items to the Dicepool ?
It seems to me that Items(and weather they're Matrix connected or not) are now even more important than in SR4A

with an important Dance
Medicineman

[Bull]

something that already existed INGAME will not disappear just because You (not You personally but CGL ) forgot to include it in the BBB

We didn't forget. It may return in an expansion book somewhere.  It may need retooled first though.

And, well...  Program carriers, spell locks, dikoting, boosted reflexes...  There's a number of things that have disappeared over the years when a new edition comes out.

[Carz]

We take and consider input from all sources.

As with all creative endeavors, knowing who to listen to and who to ignore becomes an important part of the process.

We get feedback from the forums, from conventions we do (Large and small, and considering we had several hundred players at Origins, it wasn't that small

When I go to a convention, I know I do my best to be polite, and not complain, even if I don't like what's going on - so even if I have issues with the rules, the play or the players I tend not to bring it up, in favor of allowing everyone to have the best time possible.

It usually takes some direct query, or a time to chat with the rep/GM afterward before I voice any issues or concerns.

Just a thought that others may be like myself.

[Wildcard]

something that already existed INGAME will not disappear just because You (not You personally but CGL ) forgot to include it in the BBB

We didn't forget. It may return in an expansion book somewhere.  It may need retooled first though.

Mwahaha. Overload the electrical field of the user and give them moderate shock damage with a successful hack.

I hope I bump into you at GenCon Bull.

[Medicineman]

boosted reflexes...

Way of the Samurai

And Dikote was used as Houserules in quite some Groups I know.
(mostly with AP-1 and the cost from SR3)

There is no real explanation why an Item that did exist in 2050,2060 or 2074 should disapeear suddenly in the Year 2075.
I bet there's still some  Pocket Secretaries that You can buy  in Shadowrun
As well as you can still buy Music tapes nowadays

HokaHey
Medicineman

[Boomstick]

Let's consider, for a second, that such hate only comes from a fairly small quarter.

Even if we are not that representative, We are not just the "average american player in his twenties, white, geek".
Seems there are people from all around the world here. And that about 4 in 5, not counting SR5 team who are not to much pleased by the implementation of these bonuses and a few other things. While they were pleased about the basic ideas, actually, just looking at the "sticking to the 4th" topic says a lot.

I don't just give a little push on these because I take pleasure to that. Actually, I am greatly pissed off. Because there are a lot of cool things, which will end in me buying the game cause I am a fan, indeed, even if I hate to admit it as fans have no insight usually about what they like or not, but if I was to play it, I know it would take a lot of flak from my players who are much less nice than myself.
And I hate that a game is being remembered because of the stupid point in the rule that doesn't make sense instead of his great background.

We take and consider input from all sources.  We get feedback from the forums

Allow me to doubt that. When a lot of good point have been made about some things you were, as a development team, really proud of as that was the part of the game you created yourself, well, we got a "take over it, now it is done and you can't change it". That's a lot of consideration for feedback. No grudge held there. But I felt I had to remind some points there, cause I don't have too short memory when I read thing like that pissing me off to such extent (I was not even concerned, actually, I believe, but I felt it was astonishing, in the wrong sense).

We just have to weigh the input versus it's source.  The Internet often acts as a bit of an echo-chamber, where a half dozen individuals make thousands of posts, so their voices are much louder, but they may or may not actually reflect the opinions of the fanbase.  Especially since often the loudest fans tend to reinforce each others opinions.

So by following such a reasoning, you can easily select what pleases you instead of taking the opinion for what it's worth.
And by "what it's worth", I mean, rule wise, design wise, mechanic wise, not the number of people who back the idea. Even if it is one guy alone, if the point he makes show that the logic standing between RAI and RAW is completely flawed, you should take it into account, when materially possible.

As with all creative endeavors, knowing who to listen to and who to ignore becomes an important part of the process.

Read above.
As for preview 4, I reported what I am quasi sure of being a mistake. Not even an answer, I guess it will take an errata well after.

[bannockburn]

Thanks for the correction