[Black]

Just a quick clarification.  Does Edge allow a mage to increase the force of a spell above its maximum (x2 Magic)?

Eg. in the latest run, a mage cast Physical Barrier and edged the roll.  7 Edge, 6 Magic, + 6 spellcasting, got 18 successes (poping natural 6s).  Great... but apparently it made the Physcial barrier Force 18?  whoah....  Is that correct?

[Falconer]

Okay, the force of the spell is still only 6.  Edge does not change the force, only the number of successes.

Edge allows you to use all the successes though.   In the case of physical barrier, the strength of the barrier is based on the number of successes rolled on the spellcasting test.   Force only serves to cap the number of usable successes, which the use of edge allowed to exceed.

Force also sets the size limits of the wall.

The barrier ends up with a rating 18 structure and armor... which is exceptionally strong.

[cr4kp0t]

Edge allows you to use all the successes though.   In the case of physical barrier, the strength of the barrier is based on the number of successes rolled on the spellcasting test.   Force only serves to cap the number of usable successes, which the use of edge allowed to exceed.

Sorry to be bug you falconer but could you show me in RAW where it is stated that when edge is used on spell casting that all hits are then valid.

I can't find anything that supports your assertion thus far.

if it isn't the case then as you described the hits would be limited to force.

[Falconer]

p182.
... "In other words, Force has a limiting effect on spells-- the more oomph you put into the spell, the better you can succeed with it.  This limitation does not apply to Edge dice that are used to boost a spell."


NB:
There's a little bit of argument on that last part... for example if you spend edge beforehand... all the dice are subject to the rule of 6 and could be considered edged...  or spending edge afterwards where you roll only edge... or do you put 6 specially colored dice into the pool to reflect edge?!  That last strikes me as a bit odd... as in every other test... once dice are added to the pool they lose their 'color' (whether they're from attribute, skill, modifier...).

It's worded a bit too awkwardly.   But a GM would be fine with either a loose or strict interpretation as he sees fit.

[cr4kp0t]

cheers falc,

I hadn't noticed that before,

Yes as you say like so many of the rules its very awkwardly worded.

IF it were my campaign i'd definitely say it was only the edge dice that would count. otherwise it can get far too OP as noted in this example.

[Black]

Thanks for the rules clarification Falconer.  Very much appreciated! 

[_Pax_]

NB:
There's a little bit of argument on that last part... for example if you spend edge beforehand... all the dice are subject to the rule of 6 and could be considered edged...  or spending edge afterwards where you roll only edge... or do you put 6 specially colored dice into the pool to reflect edge?!  That last strikes me as a bit odd... as in every other test... once dice are added to the pool they lose their 'color' (whether they're from attribute, skill, modifier...).

I was just about to bring that up, when I saw this part of your post. 

On the one hand, I'm inclined to say "use a different color die, and only THOSE successes are uncapped".  But on the other hand, that's just more effort/work to interpret the same single roll, so I probably will not be doing that in actual practise.

[Falconer]

Me either, I don't see the problem with allowing edge.. unless you're refreshing edge really often.  You RARELY get things like that freak 18 successes.... but really it makes the game fun... sometimes you just get really lucky other times you get really boned (glitch/crit glitch).


About the only really GOOD use I've found for it is.  I cast a spell at force 1.  Edge in advance so all my successes count.  (or I roll my edge seperately).


The reason... perception test to notice spellcasting.  I'm trying to do something very subtly.     Need 5 successes to notice it at force 1 (6-force)... but force 1 normally limtied to a single success... edge allows you pull this off when there's no other way to do the spellcasting subtly when you're there in person.   (even force 3 is 3 success on perception...)

[raggedhalo]

I always run it with different colour dice and only the hits from those dice counting above the cap.

[All4BigGuns]

I always run it with different colour dice and only the hits from those dice counting above the cap.

I would just segregate however many I needed out of the ones that didn't get a hit and roll those if I did that particular Edge use, but I'd probably just use it to reroll hits since a GM that I would consider to be a good one would let those explode anyway.

[_Pax_]

Aha, possible houserule: if you spend Edge to add to a die pool, then you add your Edge attribute to the cap for successes.

IOW, if you have Magic 5, Sorcery 6, and Power Focus 2 ... your DP is 13.  Casting a F3 spell, you're normally capped at 3 successes.

But if you use a point of Edge, to add your Edge attribute of 4 to teh DP?  You cap also goes up by 4 (from 3 to 7).

It's nearly as limited as the "different color die" method, but retains the vast majority of the "just roll and don't worry about success caps" approach.  Best of both worlds, I think.

Anyone see any serious problems with that?

[All4BigGuns]

The problem lies in that it's basically nerfing Edge, which I don't honestly think is good enough as it is considering the cost to buy/raise it and the fact that it's a consumable resource that's got the 'GM discretion' thing on when one gets it back.

[Crash_00]

My personal ruling on it, although I agree that the RAW is separated dice due to the awkward wording, is that any die which can use the rule of six count as edge dice for any given test. So if players spend edge before, all the dice count as edge dice. If they spend after, only those that are rolled after count. If they reroll failures, none count since the rule of six isn't introduced (you aren't rolling edge dice, you're spending edge to reroll normal dice).

Anyone see any serious problems with that?

It's definitely a lot simpler than having to sort out two different sets of dice to roll. I don't see any issues with it, then again I think edge is the most powerful stat in the game if the player knows how to use it. Doubly so when they get it high (main reason I go with humans over ork sometimes is to take lucky and get edge to .

The only issue I see coming up with it is that it is pretty much dead center. Sides that like all dice counting will argue that it's too low, sides that only want the edge stat's dice to count (which would on average be 1/3 edge in extra hits) will argue it's too high. When you get to the meat of it, that's pretty much where you want things to be though. A fair trade leaves everyone walking away feeling alright but not unusually happy.

[_Pax_]

The only issue I see coming up with it is that it is pretty much dead center. Sides that like all dice counting will argue that it's too low, sides that only want the edge stat's dice to count (which would on average be 1/3 edge in extra hits) will argue it's too high. When you get to the meat of it, that's pretty much where you want things to be though. A fair trade leaves everyone walking away feeling alright but not unusually happy.

Well, that's precisely the point I was aiming for, so ...

The problem lies in that it's basically nerfing Edge, which I don't honestly think is good enough as it is considering the cost to buy/raise it and the fact that it's a consumable resource that's got the 'GM discretion' thing on when one gets it back.

Well, I don't think the Edge itself is being nerfed.  I think the contagious nature of the "no limit on net hits" thing is what's been nerfed.  And since nerfing that, is what I wanted to do?  It's not IMO a flaw ... it's mission accomplished. 

[Falconer]

My personal ruling on it, although I agree that the RAW is separated dice due to the awkward wording, is that any die which can use the rule of six count as edge dice for any given test. So if players spend edge before, all the dice count as edge dice. If they spend after, only those that are rolled after count. If they reroll failures, none count since the rule of six isn't introduced (you aren't rolling edge dice, you're spending edge to reroll normal dice).

This is how I handle it.  Generally see it handled as well.

Edge in advance.. you might get lucky, you might not... if you glitch you can't spend edge again to negate the glitch.

One GM houserules and ignores this rule altogether and won't let edge be spent at all to exceed the cap.