[darcdante]

So let's say that 2 people use the standard 400bp to create a character: one a hacker and one a technomancer. Is there any noticeable difference in power in the Matrix? I'm just curious.

[CanRay]

One can kill you with their brain.

The other needs a little more help to kill you with their brain.

[Zilfer]

One can kill you with their brain.

The other needs a little more help to kill you with their brain.

>.> *quick draws heavy pistol and fires*

How's that for brain power? xD

reread the initiation for mages. Can't believe i missed that important part. It makes me sad however.... 13 Karma and then 35 Karma on top of that. T.T

Another note, had a question about what most people do their storylines after. I mean it seems you could make the triple AAA's to be the bad guys or Dragons. Is that the usual campaign type that most people do? I get the feeling you could do almost anything you wanted with Shadowrun, since these are people that just turned to making quick money so they could live. As players I don't think I always think like someone who had opted to take another life of secrecy, so life could be easier in other aspects.

I was also thinking about making the main Mr. Johnson that they meet a dragon. They never meet this guy in person, it's always over VR. The guy goes by the name of Skulh. (yes his avatar is a floating skull. xD)

[beowulf_of_wa]

personally i feel that dragons should never be the johnson, they have other things to do with their time.

now if skulh has a personal wageslave who happens to be johnson,, that approximately normal.

[Medicineman]

So let's say that 2 people use the standard 400bp to create a character: one a hacker and one a technomancer. Is there any noticeable difference in power in the Matrix? I'm just curious.

That's a bad Question (ImO)
It totally depends upon how You build the Char, how much You Min/Max

I was also thinking about making the main Mr. Johnson that they meet a dragon. They never meet this guy in person, it's always over VR. The guy goes by the name of Skulh. (yes his avatar is a floating skull. xD)

Why not ? You don't need to take one of the Great Dragons, there are a couple of other Ones that You can use for Your Campaign.
personally I think that using a Great Dragon is ...."to big as a Start"
but  remember that Dragons don't use any Cyberware and work in the Matrix like a normal Person only.So no Dragon Hacker PLEASE

personally i feel that dragons should never be the johnson, they have other things to do with their time.

Don't confuse Dragons and Great Dragons and even Great Dragons ...."sully their Hands" (is that the right expression ?) sometimes

with a sullied Dance
Medicineman

[Charybdis]

Another note, had a question about what most people do their storylines after. I mean it seems you could make the triple AAA's to be the bad guys or Dragons. Is that the usual campaign type that most people do? I get the feeling you could do almost anything you wanted with Shadowrun, since these are people that just turned to making quick money so they could live. As players I don't think I always think like someone who had opted to take another life of secrecy, so life could be easier in other aspects.

I was also thinking about making the main Mr. Johnson that they meet a dragon. They never meet this guy in person, it's always over VR. The guy goes by the name of Skulh. (yes his avatar is a floating skull. xD)

You can make anyone be a campaign villain, and they don't even have to be powerful, just clever, and preferably with some cash (but not mandatory):

Skulh could be:
- A bored, psychotic brat who hacked his way into Daddy's bank account and wants to eliminate his competition
-- Or set the PC's up to rob his own house, perform other crimes, then plans to turn them in to the police for whatever reward is being offered

- The middle-man for a Toxic shaman lining your PC's up to get the parts for a dirty bomb

I very rarely use Dragons or high-power megacorps. These things are the sledgehammers of the Shadorun universe, and you don't need a sledgehammer for beginning PC's. The first Stuffer-Shack run is a good example.

However as Megacorps and dragons use layers of intermediaries and shell companies, it was always a possibility, but never outright explained or said, and really doesn't need to be.

[The Big Peat]

I'd agree that a Great Dragon certainly should be reserved for major players. 100 karma in and with scores of succesful missions? Hell yeah! Just starting...? He's gone to those guys.

As for the Hacker/Technomancer thing... Neo was a douche. A great big whiney douche who was handed all his power on a plate yet spent too much time being useless and not enough time being awesome/undressing whateverthehellhernamewasn't. Meanwhile, Tank was cool and worked for his powers. Based on that, I'd be the godsdamned hacker.

Not that everyone would be like that. But some might prefer the flavour, and insofar as I can tell, it is not an option that screws yourself over.

[kirk]

At this point (beginners), if I wanted a dragon tied in at all, he'd either be who Skuhl was trying to emulate (red herrings - Skuhl isn't, but a lot of clues say he might be) or the dragon is the boss of the boss of Skuhl's chief advisor. You know, the one who'll inevitably but surprisingly betray Skuhl (when it'll make it worse for your party, of course).

[Charybdis]

At this point (beginners), if I wanted a dragon tied in at all, he'd either be who Skuhl was trying to emulate (red herrings - Skuhl isn't, but a lot of clues say he might be) or the dragon is the boss of the boss of Skuhl's chief advisor. You know, the one who'll inevitably but surprisingly betray Skuhl (when it'll make it worse for your party, of course).

I guess the question is: Why does it have to be a dragon?

Why can't it just be another Megacorp exec? Or a rival Johnson?

How is the big villain being a dragon adding to the story?

If it's not, then why bother? Save the dragon for some great big climactic scene where it eats the 'villain' the PC's thought was in charge. Or have it ignore a sniper shot as an opposing Runner team comes charging into the mix...

But if it's just another guy with dialogue, that's a waste of a dragon....

[Medicineman]

I guess the question is: Why does it have to be a dragon?

If You'd ask Me I'd answer:
Because I can 
But to be honest, I hardly used any Dragons. Only recently when I'm playing my Fomori Drake.Her "Fixer" is Perianwyr

How is the big villain being a dragon adding to the story?

because its a Dragon and its Shadowrun.
 in a Cyberpunk or Corporate Setting You can't have a Dragon as a "main Villain"
I totally Agree that a Great Drake is wahay too much and its not the best of Ideas to use a Dragon for beginning  Chars,but the Dragon as the Boss of Skuhl is (ImO )a good compromise

He who dances with Dragons
Medicineman

[The Big Peat]

I think the real answere here is "Some people like Dragons".

I know I do. My current adventure arc has none, which makes me sad, but I intend to correct this at some point in the future.

[Zilfer]

I'll take the advice to heart, not to use them too soon. I feel however if they were put into a game then they are there for a reason. It's like an argument I have with the person that got me into DnD.

I read the Steven Erikson's book serise called "Malazan Books of the Fallen" that have gods placed all throughout the story. Faerun has about as many gods as the books. Somehow we got into a conversation if the group could ever possibly run into a god. He said no, what are the odds of you running into a god.

Now my perspective when your playing, your playing Hero's or people above average commoner in Dungeons and Dragons. I'd say your MORE likely to come into contact with one of them. Not right off the bat but as you go up in levels and are affecting the realm  you'd either be stepping on some god toes or helping some. I don't see anything wrong with having them make a few appearances rather than not at all because whats the fun in not using something developed?

Though again, I realize much of what "Should" go into a campaign is what the PC's want, and is also up to personal preference. Some people like Monty Haul Dming. (giving out lots of loot and mostly only killing things. Lots of epicness with no real flare)

An interesting point in the argument for me was he asked the very same question. "Why does it have to be a god? Why can't it be the high priest of a god? What does it add to the story?"

Me and him are of differing oppinions, i think it being the actual god is more impressive. (in the example we were discussing getting a quest.) If it was straight from the god it definately adds to the story.

>.> After what the group has experienced with their first dragon or rather I have. (being captured in that room) I can truthfully say I doubt they would turn him down. XD I also don't plan on unleashing this fact for months to come down the road, and they'll have to figure out Skulh is a dragon by theirselves because he will continue to meet them obscurely or send others in his place. I just wanted oppinions from people, and I thank you for all who expressed them .

On a side note, no one shared their own bad guys? No one wants to share? xD

[CanRay]

You don't need to have dragons to be monsters.

The worst monsters can be the ones we see in the mirror.  Or on the street.

[Zilfer]

You don't need to have dragons to be monsters.

The worst monsters can be the ones we see in the mirror.  Or on the street.

By the time you see the monster in the mirror it's already too late, and you don't realize what you've become tho! xD

I do like those tragic type of stories however.

[CanRay]

You want tragic?

They see the monster coming in the mirror a bit at a time, and refuse to change from their course anyhow.  Because they like what they see.