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Is Shadowrun really this brutal?

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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #165 on: <01-24-16/2209:15> »
If anything, the spirit would be positively affected by an aspected area of magic.

ZombieAcePilot

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« Reply #166 on: <01-25-16/0118:58> »
So there is an assumption that someone will have assensing and get the need 3-4 hits, or the party will be hosed before they even know how utterly fucked they are. Further, I think it's funny every is latching onto the big count and isn't going... "force WHAT!?!"

All the bug has to do is squash your Mage (which should be really easy given it is force fucking 9), and then chiter it's horrendous cackle as it kills the rest of you one at a time. 18 hardened armor is sick. You'll have to bullseye double tap it with a sniper rifle to even scratch it. What's the chances the group is all armed with those?

Glyph

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« Reply #167 on: <01-25-16/0217:39> »
Why would a bug spirit in a bug-aspected BC suffer a penalty?

It wouldn't, but I don't see where kyoto kid described it as being aspected.

Mirikon

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« Reply #168 on: <01-25-16/1030:39> »
ZAP, there's other ways of dealing with a spirit than trying to overpower it with regular ammo. APDS ammo applies to the Hardened armor as well, as would SnS. Capsule rounds filled with KE IV (an insecticide on novacoke) will trigger the spirit's allergy. And I do know groups that always have someone with the longarms or heavy weapons when they expect heavy combat.

In general, though, if you aren't kitted out for bug hunting, and you encounter bugs, you really oughta turn and run, and if you come back at all, do so when you've properly kitted up, with backup.

And Guns, sorry, but that doesn't hold water. If all the fights are 'fair' and brute combat is all the players need to do to advance, then you might as well be playing a FPS with Shadowrun trappings. It isn't about punishing players for not playing 'right'. It is the simple acknowledgement that there are bigger fish than you out there, and going in guns blazing is a stupid, suicidal idea many times. By your logic, if a group decides it would be fun to assassinate the CEOs of all the Big 10 (including S-K), then a GM should make it so that those fights were 'fair'? I call straight bull on that. Yes, in D&D you can kill gods if you're high enough level, but this ain't D&D. It isn't even fantasy. What you're saying goes against not only common sense, but also every example of the setting, and the genre it is set in.
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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #169 on: <01-25-16/1128:25> »
Why would a bug spirit in a bug-aspected BC suffer a penalty?

It wouldn't, but I don't see where kyoto kid described it as being aspected.
I went with logical inference, myself.
Playability > verisimilitude.

kyoto kid

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« Reply #170 on: <01-26-16/0006:06> »
Ways to deal with a force 9 spirit... *Open mouth, insert gun, pull trigger, flip GM the bird* Your move smart guy.

Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhh, definitely had that thought before.
...it better be a really big gun with a high DV and AP as a force 9 spirit gets 9 auto hits on its soak roll from hardened armour.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #171 on: <01-26-16/0017:48> »
Ways to deal with a force 9 spirit... *Open mouth, insert gun, pull trigger, flip GM the bird* Your move smart guy.

Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhh, definitely had that thought before.
...it better be a really big gun with a high DV and AP as a force 9 spirit gets 9 auto hits on its soak roll from hardened armour.
Except he's likely talking about eating a bullet and flipping off the GM as you leave the game.
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kyoto kid

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« Reply #172 on: <01-26-16/0034:30> »
Why would a bug spirit in a bug-aspected BC suffer a penalty?

It wouldn't, but I don't see where kyoto kid described it as being aspected.
...the location was the site of the former Sears Tower in the CZ. which was destroyed during the Night of Rage (and it still had a BGC of 6 even after three and a half decades). If it did become a bug hive after that, then yes, it would have further benefited the spirit had it awakened (we were not about to go back and test that theory).

Again it was fortunate our mage cast only one spell the immediate vicinity as we learned later that throwing around too much magic would have awakened it.  My adept had kept her weapon focus (force 5) and powers turned off (save for her Improved Reflexes) as well since they were useless. So in this case, our disadvantage turned out to be our best defence.

Had the spirit awakened, it would have been time to "cut and run" as the biggest gun we had was the Remington 950 my Adept was carrying, DV 12 AP -8 (APDS). It would have taken a ludicrously lucky shot, pre edging the roll, just to make it go "ow" and that most likely would have only pissed it off more.
« Last Edit: <01-26-16/0037:41> by kyoto kid »
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ZombieAcePilot

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« Reply #173 on: <01-26-16/0128:26> »
Ways to deal with a force 9 spirit... *Open mouth, insert gun, pull trigger, flip GM the bird* Your move smart guy.

Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhh, definitely had that thought before.
...it better be a really big gun with a high DV and AP as a force 9 spirit gets 9 auto hits on its soak roll from hardened armour.
Except he's likely talking about eating a bullet and flipping off the GM as you leave the game.

You nailed it.

Facemage

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« Reply #174 on: <01-26-16/0827:24> »
We can safely assume that a F9 spirit has only 1-2 services and it is unbound (lol, try to bound F9 spirit). So, use banishing: 6 + 6  with edge (second chance). The spirit is defending with 9 dices and if you get more, it is gone. It's possible that the summoner uses the edge, which means on average 5 hits on the spirit's defense test => 10 drain. This is difficult but with increase drain stats spells you can get on average like 6 hits, so you do not die.

In bc6 this does not work anymore, fleeing is still a good option.

falar

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« Reply #175 on: <01-26-16/0944:50> »
Force 9 Spirit = Ares Alpha + Handloaded APDS rounds (12P, AP -6) + Full Auto Complex + Gyo Mount/Shock Pad.

From what I can tell, that would actually be fairly decent opening strike. With a half-optimized pool (Agility 6 + Automatics 6 + Assault Rifles 2 + Smartgun 2), you're looking at 18 vs 14 to hit, so decent odds. If we go full charOp on this, we've got a Steel Lynx with the Ares Alpha mounted, but we'll need Gas Vent 1 at least instead of the Gyro Mount/Shock Pad. Then it'll be Logic 8 + Gunnery 6 + Ballistics 2 + Smartgun 2 + Hotsim 2 + Control Rig 3 for 23 vs 14 to hit. Add in a bevy of  Noizquitos with hold-out pistols for the express purpose of just reducing the dodge pool and you might be able to take it.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #176 on: <01-26-16/0959:36> »
We can safely assume that a F9 spirit has only 1-2 services and it is unbound (lol, try to bound F9 spirit). So, use banishing: 6 + 6  with edge (second chance). The spirit is defending with 9 dices and if you get more, it is gone. It's possible that the summoner uses the edge, which means on average 5 hits on the spirit's defense test => 10 drain. This is difficult but with increase drain stats spells you can get on average like 6 hits, so you do not die.

In bc6 this does not work anymore, fleeing is still a good option.
Buying Banishing 6 just on the off chance of needing to deal with a super high Force spirit is even more of a ludicrous opportunity cost than buying a missile launcher.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #177 on: <01-26-16/1004:41> »
Bah. A cheap Ruger 101 with hand loaded APDS and the Bull's Eye Burst called shot will do
11P AP14 + Successes
-2 auto soak, on average you only need two salvos to take a F9 spirit down.

The best (only restricted) weapon for this is the Mannlicher drilling from the German Schattenhandbuch 2.
The rifle barrel brings 4 AP with SA on the table for a total maximum of AP 17, base damage 12
Very fittingly, it's a hunting rifle... 
« Last Edit: <01-26-16/1020:44> by Jack_Spade »
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Rift_0f_Bladz

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« Reply #178 on: <01-26-16/1012:46> »
We can safely assume that a F9 spirit has only 1-2 services and it is unbound (lol, try to bound F9 spirit). So, use banishing: 6 + 6  with edge (second chance). The spirit is defending with 9 dices and if you get more, it is gone. It's possible that the summoner uses the edge, which means on average 5 hits on the spirit's defense test => 10 drain. This is difficult but with increase drain stats spells you can get on average like 6 hits, so you do not die.

In bc6 this does not work anymore, fleeing is still a good option.
Buying Banishing 6 just on the off chance of needing to deal with a super high Force spirit is even more of a ludicrous opportunity cost than buying a missile launcher.

Can you even banish a bug spirit? I don't think they play by those rules.

Best bet is using the Barrett model 122 with Bullseye double tap and ADPS for AP -22 ((-6*3)+-4). What harden armor? Now it soaks 14Dv +net hits with just body. When you go bug hunting, you bring the big toys.
Quote- Mirikon on 7/30/2019 at 08:26:51
Agreed. This looks like a 'training wheels' edition, that you can use to introduce someone to the setting, and then shift over to something like 5E or 4E. Like how D&D 5E is best used as training wheels for D&D 3.X.

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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #179 on: <01-26-16/1016:22> »
Can you even banish a bug spirit? I don't think they play by those rules.

I don't know why not? I can't remember seeing anything saying you can't banish or disrupt them.

Best bet is using the Barrett model 122 with Bullseye double tap and ADPS for AP -22 ((-6*3)+-4). What harden armor? Now it soaks 14Dv +net hits with just body. When you go bug hunting, you bring the big toys.
Yum...  ;)
Playability > verisimilitude.