[Wazlethwack]

I just got my copy of Clutch of Dragons.  It's my first new Shadowrun book since the end of third edition.  So far, I like the book very much. 

But I noticed something odd... I'm noticing a (relatively) high number of grammatical mistakes.  Relatively in comparison with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition books. 

The grammar errors don't hurt the writing or make the intent unclear.  But it is strange because I almost never noticed those in previous books.  But I've also noticed no spelling errors.  Just grammar.

So that leads me to ask.... what kind of support services do Shadowrun writers get?  Are they provided proof readers?  Editors?  Or are the writers expected to do it all on their own? 

I look forward to posting a full review of the book when I've finished reading it.

[Namikaze]

Clutch of Dragons was published 2 years ago - I think publishing a review of it at this point would be superfluous.

[Wazlethwack]

Good point.

[Crimsondude]

Yes, there are proofreaders and playtesters and editors. I can't recall much of what is in the book that isn't mine, but I also remember there being some material around that time that was supposed to be sloppy given the in-game sources of the information. I'm almost certain that was the case with Conspiracy Theories, and I'm pretty sure it applies to Clutch. Not what I wrote, but other sections.

It was the last book I had the time and interest to write for, so I'd be interested in a review. There will always be new readers of the books (except the original Germany sourcebook. When FASA closed down, they literally couldn't give away their extra copies).

[Wazlethwack]

Thankfully I have the Germany source book.  It's in rather poor condition but I've got it. 

The grammatical errors I'm thinking about aren't in comments/shadow talk.  They're in the main text.  I don't want this to sound like a criticism because it's not.  The errors reminded me of what I'd do if I was writing something off the cuff, had an inline spell checker running, but didn't proof read it.

It intrigues me because it makes me wonder about the conditions the writers have to deal with.  From what I can gather from forums most of the writing is done by freelancers.  I don't know if this was always the case or not.  I assume the use of freelancers is the same reason every publication uses them-lower costs.  Pesky things like health insurance and benefits don't come into play.  (And no, I'm not trying to get any of the writers to bite the hand that feeds them on the forums). 

I also noticed that the overall *printing* quality of the books (especially the artwork) is lower than in first and second edition.

My assumption is that the RPG publishers have been trying to cut costs for at least a decade.  Presumably because of competition from video games and the Internet.  I believe that was why FASA bowed out of the business in the first place.

I'm still chewing through the book.  So far, the quality of the writing itself is superb.  It'll be interesting to compare this tome to Dragons of the Sixth World, which I also have read.

[Reaver]

Sadly, the Rpg market has never been a huge market to start with, and costs have done nothing but gone up

As a long time player (I have been playing from 1e too) I too have moticed a change in quality of the books as well.... for the most part the quality of the paper stock has gone up (such with the new 5e glossed pages) Artwork (IMO) has always been hit or miss.


Personally, I think the freelancers we have, have done a great job with what they have to work with, and I look forward to the new books scheduled to come out.

[Wazlethwack]

Just to be clear:  I'm not denigrating the writers at all.  Quite the opposite.  I am concerned that writers may not be getting adequate resources.  I expect it might also be tricky because the Shadowrun publisher has changed several times.

An analogy might be newspapers.  Traditionally newspaper reporters had good resources.  You had editors and proof readers and researchers and the like.  As the newspaper business has gotten hammered those resources have been cut (as have the reporters).  As someone who thinks good newspapers are very important this concerns me.

[Reaver]

Sorry, I was not saying you were attacking. I was politely trying to say that a lot of the resources that you would expect there to be available to the writers are probably not actually there due to budget restraints.... which is sadly a sign of the times in the RPG market.

[Wakshaani]

Writing and editing are related, but different skillsets. FASA used to have a staff editor who did *no* writing, but she had teh Red Pen of Doom and would reach in there to make corrections.

For the record, as bad as you might feel about writing errors in books, the people whose names are attached to said errors *really* get belly-twisted over it. We catch as many as possible, but every now and then something will slip through (Especially for word mistakes, like peak instead of peek, or throw instead of through, since spellcheckers pass those by and looking over your own work, your brain will trick you.)

There are some changes coming down from above to try and fix this. Personally, I'd love to get Jennifer back on staff again, but I don't know anything about Catalyst's finances in terms of feasability on the issue.

But, the problems have been noted and ways to correct it are being attempted, but we're not where we need to be yet. Hopefully soon.

(For the record, when we finally get abook out that's mistake-free, I will probably ask for everyone to give me a cookie at GenCon. Just 'cause.)

[Reaver]

Writing and editing are related, but different skillsets. FASA used to have a staff editor who did *no* writing, but she had teh Red Pen of Doom and would reach in there to make corrections.

For the record, as bad as you might feel about writing errors in books, the people whose names are attached to said errors *really* get belly-twisted over it. We catch as many as possible, but every now and then something will slip through (Especially for word mistakes, like peak instead of peek, or throw instead of through, since spellcheckers pass those by and looking over your own work, your brain will trick you.)

There are some changes coming down from above to try and fix this. Personally, I'd love to get Jennifer back on staff again, but I don't know anything about Catalyst's finances in terms of feasability on the issue.

But, the problems have been noted and ways to correct it are being attempted, but we're not where we need to be yet. Hopefully soon.

(For the record, when we finally get abook out that's mistake-free, I will probably ask for everyone to give me a cookie at GenCon. Just 'cause.)

Screw the cookie, I'll buy you a beer!

[Wazlethwack]

No apologies needed.  I simply didn't want to give the wrong impression.  And I'd hate to see the writers raked over the coals for errors.

[Grinder]

It was the last book I had the time and interest to write for, so I'd be interested in a review. There will always be new readers of the books (except the original Germany sourcebook. When FASA closed down, they literally couldn't give away their extra copies).

Well, this one  I can agree with:

Jackpointers are talking about Lofwyr being Loremaster as if it's a given fact and that the trial detailed in Survival of the Fittest actually did have its box scores published on the screamsheets. Everything about dragons has been demystified and it just completely does not

. "Well, we redid Fields of Fire, Shadowbeat, Threats, Cyberpirates, Paranormal Animals, State of the Art, and Seattle Sourcebook. What's left?" "Dragons of the Sixth World and Mr. Johnson's Black Book" "Brilliant! Final manuscript is due next Wednesday and we'll publish the PDF the following Tuesday."

Yes, that was hyperbolic, but it's my impression of CGL's attitude toward Shadowrun. Release too many products in too short a time period without spending nearly enough on writing, editing, art, layout, etc. So everything comes out looking like a rough draft with errors all over the place with the sort of amateurish visual look you'd except from companies back in the OGL days of the early 2000s. BattleTech gets all the money and attention and Shadowrun's treated like a redheaded stepchild. I don't blame the writers and I only barely blame the editors. I blame CGL for putting too much on the schedule without giving any of it the proper attention. It means a lowered quality across the board. I'd much rather get a few really good books every year than 20-30 or more crappy PDF-only releases.

Thus my review. If you like what Catalyst has been doing with Shadowrun, you'll like Clutch of Dragons. If you're looking for something to change your mind (like I am every time I pick up one of the 4A books), you're not going to find it here. And since I seem to be in the minority, I guess they're doing something people like since I've only run into a couple of Shadowrun grognards over the net with everyone else playing 4A.

Plus this:

I was disappointed by the intro story. Too forced, too Splinter Cell for my tastes, but that's a matter of personal preference, as is most of the following, apart from a few hard facts I'll present later.
The whole war subplot seems kind of forced to me. Kill campaigns against talisleggers and their associates are understandable, if a bit silly. After all, we hunt people who deal in human remains as well. You don't want the guy who's been drinking wine from your aunt's skull to live. However, this whole scorched earth business á la "I kill you and everyone who ever knew you"? Kind of over the top.
I also did not really get all the corporate connections with Seraphim and whatnot popping up here and there. To me, it seems like someone wanted to connect a whole lot of threads that don't really go well together, and the ensuing story lacks direction and a hard theme. The whole 'trickle down effects' chapter is a bit out of place in my eyes and doesn't contribute much.

I did like the short writeups as to what the Greats are up to these days, as well as the spotlight on what the drakes are doing (and I don't even like drakes  ). The chapters about specific smaller dragons and the Sea Dragon were, in general, also well written and I enjoyed reading them, but .. Urubia worth 50 billion Nuyen + unspecified amounts? Bit much ... IMO.
The fiction was also fun to read. Meeting the old fellows again under these circumstances made me smile
Interior artwork feels very good, all in all

Now to the things I did not like:
- The cover. It's awful, at least as awful as that ork on the boardroom backstabs cover. Please don't use Zeleznik for cover artwork again until he gets back to his old quality 
- The whole 'tools of the opposition' chapter. WTF? A drone that shoots smaller drones at dragons? What's the point?! I mean ... I get submunitions, but this concept screams "We need to get something totally abstruse into this book!" The chapter seems forced, overall, and not well thought out. "Why yes, there must be weapons against dragons. Let's have the shadowtalkers speculate some, while throwing buzzwords around" is my general impression of the ratio behind it. Consequently, the game information chapter is equally worthless, giving stats for that weird drone and spirit piloted t-birds without providing ... actual stats, what a spirit piloted t-bird can do. WTF? I once had a brainstorming with a friend. We forced a newspaper from 1887, a shitload of polish cigarettes, trolls on vespa scooters in the Siberian tundra, a porn collection, color-coded surprise grenades, awakened Yaks with cyberlegs and a nuclear submarine in one adventure, for no other reason than 'because we can'. This chapter is like that. I think, we were really drunk. Was this the excuse for writing this?
Also ... This drone is apparently magic resistant and has 2 more dice for spell resistance tests! I'm a bit foggy. Are those actually rolled by a drone?
Oh yeah. True drake BP costs. Equally useless, IMO, but for scalies surely a feast

- The spelling mistakes. Oh the sheer mass of typos in this book is so disappointing. My favorites: With one line in between, "Kaltenstein" and "Kaltenstien". I know, this is difficult for non native German speakers (or writers in this case) but at least choose one! Next: "Naheka did not formerly sever his relationship [...]" (after re-reading that sentence: ambiguous, but I still think that 'formally' is meant), 'much' instead of 'must', 'hordes' instead of 'hoards'. Basic stuff, really. It's right there in the context! It irks me that the quality control in CGL products has gotten THIS bad. It's comes across as a lectorate consisting of Word spell check, without even reading it. Work on it, please, guys. Minor nitpick: Harlequin's name is Caimbeul, not Caimbuel. It's gaelic for 'crooked mouth', but at least the spelling is consistently wrong in the final story

- The goddamn teleport. It's so "Dragons are special snowflake" that it hurts. At best it's a case of a dragon showing off what he really shouldn't be showing off (no, Peri's special levitate spell does not suffice as an explanation for this shit), at worst it's an author who got his ideas about SR from the xbox game. This is one of the three tenets of SR, and ED planeswalking shouldn't be used to rationalize such crap. No reviving from death. No time travel. No teleportation. It's not that difficult.

In general, I didn't regret buying the book. But I do feel cheated because of the consistent quality control issues, that abound in recent SR products. There are a few things you can do to make the books outstanding again:
1.) A lectorate that's worth the name. Just take a good hard look at page 17 of used car lot. Brumley? Brumbly? Or is it Brumby, as in the original book?
2.) GET A TABLE OF CONTENTS! I cannot stress that enough. It's not difficult. You have it right there in the PDF. Saving that one page makes the book a lot harder to use. And in case of the PDF? Make the links clickable. I know you can do it. A lot of the pdfs have it. Bring it back, please.
3.) An index. I know, I can do a full text search in the pdfs, but this luxury doesn't extend to the print version.

Final judgement: It's an average book. The good outweighs the bad and I tend not to gripe with stuff I won't use (mostly the things I've mentioned in the first paragraph)

4 / 10, could have been a 5 without all those typos.

[Wazlethwack]

Ouch.

[Namikaze]

I think a review that criticizes typos, but is equally riddled with typos is funny.

[Critias]

I think a review that criticizes typos, but is equally riddled with typos is funny.

In fairness, there's a different expectation between a professionally published product and someone's internet post about said product.