[Shade]

A few questions.

1. If a device is slaved to a host does that mean that you cannot see/interact with it unless in the host?

2. If hosts are not physical locations and not subject to noise, does that mean interacting with devices slaved to a host also does not suffer noise penalties?

3. if a host is anchored to a physical location(eg. Stuffer Shack, and most shadowrun target buildings I would imagine) is there any effect of a PAN being inside the host? I'm assuming, obviously, that a shadowrunner's comm do not just magically enter the host from the grid when he walks in the building, but what about security staff? Would they normally be attached to the host?

If I'm understanding that correctly it seems to me that hosts would actually be somewhat LESS secure, unless they were exceptionally high rated. While it's great to have IC and good stats to resist hackers, what's to stop in a hacker in Tokyo from wrecking having in a building in Seattle if the building's systems were tied to a host?

[Aaron]

1. No.

2. No.

3. Not especially.

Unnumbered: If you discont the high ratings, the IC, the likelihood of patroling agents or spiders, and the fact that the devices you're manipulating are halfway across the globe, then yes. But most GMs probably won't leave that stuff out.

[GiraffeShaman]

Just noticed, there's some discussion of things they do to beef up Matrix in the Security area of the GM area in the book. Things like wallpaper that stops wireless, Faraday cages, and even using foliage to cause noise for hackers.

[Shade]

Okay, so the only effect of slaving to the host is to use the host's stats for defense, which makes sense. Of course, it generates a security vulnerability to the HOST in the form of the device, eh?

[Shade]

Unnumbered: If you discont the high ratings, the IC, the likelihood of patroling agents or spiders, and the fact that the devices you're manipulating are halfway across the globe, then yes. But most GMs probably won't leave that stuff out.

Right, I'm the GM and I certainly won't leave that out. It just seems to me that it means a very very capable hacker is now a huge threat to the vast majority of systems in the world regardless of his physical location. I'm perfectly fine with that, I just wanted to make sure that was the actual intent.

[Shade]

2. If hosts are not physical locations and not subject to noise, does that mean interacting with devices slaved to a host also does not suffer noise penalties?

2. No.

Actually, that is incorrect upon rereading the Matrix section. You are NOT subject to noise on devices slaved to a host if you are inside the host itself.

pg. 233

"There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with
multiple devices slaved to a host. A host can have a
practically unlimited number of devices slaved to it, but
because of the direct connection hack you rarely see
more devices than can be protected physically. If you
are in a host that has a WAN, you are considered directly
connected to all devices in the WAN."

[GiraffeShaman]

It appears that yes that a device can be an insecure point for deckers to take advantage of. In fact, in the book example the decker BK uses this to infiltrate through a door.

However, it depends on how smart the enemy security manager is. That door might have been a honeypot trap for deckers. It looks tempting, but security could be closely watching it, especially at a bank. It's just one of the ways physical security and matrix security play off each other.

[Shade]

Right, I agree. I'm not suggesting that this is a bad way for it to work, again, just trying to make sure I've got a firm grasp on it.

[Xenon]

Actually, that is incorrect upon rereading the Matrix section. You are NOT subject to noise on devices slaved to a host if you are inside the host itself.

You assume that the hacker have hacked the host and is accessing the device from within the host.

Most common scenario would be to hack a vulnerable device with direct cable to avoid the host or master device firewall and at the same time get a mark on the host or master device which you later can use to spoof commnds to other devices controled by the host or master device later during the run.

[Shade]

Actually, that is incorrect upon rereading the Matrix section. You are NOT subject to noise on devices slaved to a host if you are inside the host itself.

You assume that the hacker have hacked the host and is accessing the device from within the host.

Most common scenario would be to hack a vulnerable device with direct cable to avoid the host or master device firewall and at the same time get a mark on the host or master device which you later can use to spoof commnds to other devices controled by the host or master device later during the run.

That's definitely a good way to do it. I just know my technomancer and I suspect the direct route(aka, brute force) will be the rule of the day despite the higher risk of danger. I think it's pretty likely he'll want to hack the host and then exploit the host to control the building's security. At least until he gets spotted.

[Zamzoph]

Handy to have a thread here since I have questions about hosts myself.

First, are devices allowed to be inside hosts, or are only personas and files allowed?  I was thinking before that the host for a building would keep security devices protected from hackers by placing device icons inside the host, but then that eliminates the point of WAN.

Second, consider the following situation.  A civilian is using his commlink to access the Matrix in AR, turning the commlink's device icon into a persona icon.  The civilian then accesses some host, lets say one for some premium club that's hard to get into for anyone not invited.  In meatspace, a decker strolls by and notices the civilian, deciding that he wants to peek in the commlink and look for something to steal.  The problem:  despite the physical proximity, it turns out that the decker can't even see the icon for the civilan's commlink on the Matrix because it was taken into a host as a persona.

The virtual space inside a host is separate from the outside grid. When you’re outside of a host, you can’t interact directly with icons inside it, although you can still send messages, make commcalls, and that sort of thing.  Once you’re inside, you can see and interact with icons inside the host, but not outside (with the same caveat for messages, calls, etc.).

Since the civilian is consciously aware, direct connection with the commlink isn't an option , so in order for the decker to access the civilian's commlink, he must somehow figure out where the persona went.  If he manages to find out that the persona went to the premium club host, he then has to figure out how to get inside.  Unfortunate for him, he hasn't been invited, and it's difficult to sneak in due to the host's high rating.  Wat do?  Is this situation correct by the rules, or am I missing something?

[Xenon]

Since the civilian is consciously aware, direct connection with the commlink isn't an option , so in order for the decker to access the civilian's commlink, he must somehow figure out where the persona went. 

I am pretty sure that if your physical cyberdeck is within 100m of his commlink and he is not running in silent mode then his commlink/matrix persona will show up on your spot table and you will see that the matrix persona is inside the club. Without even rolling a matrix perception test.

If he manages to find out that the persona went to the premium club host, he then has to figure out how to get inside.  Unfortunate for him, he hasn't been invited, and it's difficult to sneak in due to the host's high rating.  Wat do? 

This is a good question

Will you need to hack the premium club, wait until he leave the host?

Can you somehow still attack him since his physical device is within 100m of yours?
- Do you need a mark on him first (that can be arranged by attacking one of his slaved devices).

[Cabfire]

Are we sure the comm' device is turning into the personna when the AR (or VR) is powered on ? (not sure if i have read it or not)

I mean, there could be the personna icon, wich represent the Virtual space where user stand, and the com device wich represent the physical space from where he is loged on.

About host, i try to understand it all:

- Devices can be slave to a host (to benefit the stat of the host) but are not neccesary inside of it (but could)
- Access of the device inside a host are done without noise (cause you're already inside, if you can see the device)

Am i right on this ?

[Razhul]

Are we sure the comm' device is turning into the personna when the AR (or VR) is powered on ? (not sure if i have read it or not)

I mean, there could be the personna icon, wich represent the Virtual space where user stand, and the com device wich represent the physical space from where he is loged on?

Page 235:

When a person uses a device to connect to the Matrix, the device’s icon is subsumed by the persona’s icon, so it’s basically gone from the Matrix until the persona jacks out

It's one of those things where I am not sure if it's the perfect Matrix defense to just not be where your body is. :S

[Aaron]

2. If hosts are not physical locations and not subject to noise, does that mean interacting with devices slaved to a host also does not suffer noise penalties?

2. No.

Actually, that is incorrect upon rereading the Matrix section. You are NOT subject to noise on devices slaved to a host if you are inside the host itself.

Good catch. Forgot that bit. But your ambient local noise does still affect your other dealings in the host.