[Sir_Prometheus]

I mean, you only really only build up recoil if you're using complex action attacks. But even long bursts are dimple actions, now!  It seems unless you're doing something fairly extreme you're you're never going to build up a recoil penalty.

It also removed some of the specialness of single shot weapons.  I think it liked the old way better.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I guess I meant full auto simple, same difference.

[Xenon]

I think SR5 recoil rules make a lot of sense and actually reflect how recoil work in real life.

Having a non wired strength 10 Troll shooting one bullet every 3 seconds with a light pistol eventually ending up with so much recoil that he would miss the broad side of a barn and just fire straight up in the air never really made any sense at all....

With Hollywood realistic rules (which SR often follow in other aspects of combat) recoil would have an even less impact

If you want to "punish" automatic weapons then there are other ways instead of unrealistic hash recoil rules.....

[ZeConster]

There are people who feel recoil shouldn't reset from a Simple Action alone, yes, but that's houserule territory.
Also: recoil can still build up with Simple Actions, if your second Simple Action is spent firing, and then the next time it's your turn your first Simple Action is spent firing.

[Zar]

So if I fire a burst then Aim , then fire off another burst on my next turn. Why would the recoil carry over?  I think the errata makes sense as well.

[Namikaze]

The weird thing to me is the way the Aim action works, actually.  I think you should have to Aim in the same turn that you shoot - you could carry it over, but Aim before shooting.  Shooting then Aiming seems odd.  But maybe that's just my OCDness.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I think SR5 recoil rules make a lot of sense and actually reflect how recoil work in real life.

Having a non wired strength 10 Troll shooting one bullet every 3 seconds with a light pistol eventually ending up with so much recoil that he would miss the broad side of a barn and just fire straight up in the air never really made any sense at all....

With Hollywood realistic rules (which SR often follow in other aspects of combat) recoil would have an even less impact

If you want to "punish" automatic weapons then there are other ways instead of unrealistic hash recoil rules.....

Actually, I think str 10 gets you 4 pts of recoil (str/3, rounded up) + the free one so you wouldn't even feel anything until the 6th bullet. 

There are people who feel recoil shouldn't reset from a Simple Action alone, yes, but that's houserule territory.

Yeah, basically my position.  That's how everyone read the rule prior to the errata, right?

So if I fire a burst then Aim , then fire off another burst on my next turn. Why would the recoil carry over?  I think the errata makes sense as well.

I guess it really depends upon how long you think aiming, which apparently includes bringing the barrel back down to bear, should really take.  I will tell you that IRL aiming takes longer than snapping off the shot, usually.  I.e. aiming + shooting is more than twice as slow as just blazing away with a semi-auto. 

[Dangersaurus]

This looks like it's already getting into forum tough talk.

Has anyone here tried playing and without the changes? What are your experiences? I honestly think it made no difference, players mostly still use complex actions (they seem to be a better deal in an actual game combat when NPCs are shooting back). Mainly the only time they use simple action shots is for dual pistols (we us RG1 from R&G)

[Erling]

My favourite subject

Personally, I love this part of errata. Automatics should be deadly, and now they ARE deadly.
Yes, Take Aim + Simple Full Auto, Take Aim + Simple Full Auto. Maybe it's overpowered, but that really makes sense. If you can do that, well, your gun has pretty good rate of fire, so you can spend only 1/2 of your Action Phase for shooting and spend another 1/2 for stabilizing the barrel.

Variant (sure it's only a possibe houserule after errata) "two Simple Actions (divided by two IPs count too) or one Complex action reset recoil" was more or less fair, you can use Simple Full Auto + Take Aim, Take Aim + Full Auto.
Variant "only whole Action Phase without firing resets recoil" is silly, because I could do Simple Burst + Remove Clip (1st IP), Insert Clip + Simple Burst (2nd IP) and still have a progressive recoil. After reloading weapon. Sounds ridiculous to me.

Here's my collection (maybe it'll help some new guy to get acquainted with pros and cons):
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=14800.0
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=13066.30
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=14804.0
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=12147.30

[Dangersaurus]

Personally, I love this part of errata. Automatics should be deadly, and now they ARE deadly.
Yes, Take Aim + Simple Full Auto, Take Aim + Simple Full Auto. Maybe it's overpowered, but that really makes sense. If you can do that, well, your gun has pretty good rate of fire, so you can spend only 1/2 of your Action Phase for shooting and spend another 1/2 for stabilizing the barrel.

See, this looks powerful but the main thing you have to think about... "Is it worth having giving the enemy a chance to act between shots worth the +2 aim bonus" Maybe against thugs, but opposition with good armor is going to make you regret it.

[martinchaen]

There are people who feel recoil shouldn't reset from a Simple Action alone, yes, but that's houserule territory.

Yeah, basically my position.  That's how everyone read the rule prior to the errata, right?

Wrong. I for one never doubted that the rules should function like the Errata clarifies.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Fine, "most"

[martinchaen]

Almost there.

[Shinobi Killfist]

It did seem to be the significant majority who read it the opposite of the errata as the errata basically makes the entire concept of progressive recoil pointless.  They should have just stuck with recoil per pass that doesn't carry over instead of changing the rules to progressive recoil and then errata things so it effectively never carries over to the next pass outside of corner cases. 

My only real issue with the errata is it really hit SS weapons hard when they didn't need the hit. For example the ruger super warhawk is plenty balanced by its limited ammo capacity, there is no need to slap the now much harsher SS onto it. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

It did seem to be the significant majority who read it the opposite of the errata as the errata basically makes the entire concept of progressive recoil pointless.  They should have just stuck with recoil per pass that doesn't carry over instead of changing the rules to progressive recoil and then errata things so it effectively never carries over to the next pass outside of corner cases. 

My only real issue with the errata is it really hit SS weapons hard when they didn't need the hit. For example the ruger super warhawk is plenty balanced by its limited ammo capacity, there is no need to slap the now much harsher SS onto it. 

^^ This.