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OOC: Urban Brawl

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Sichr

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« Reply #240 on: <03-24-11/1217:28> »
You know...the funny thing is, that when I asked about that action before the surprise, I was thinkin on jamming-on-the fly of that corridor. Didnt happen :)
And about the strategy...there is no such thing in this. Stryker knows his bussiness, also Brick knows it too and I have nothing to say.
We got:

Mage, knocked down and almost unconsciousness from drain trying to stand at his feets in the elevator.
Infiltrator dying ten meters away with body full of shrapnels
Gunman trying to flank the enemy, what is the first thing the enemy would imagine we are doing, even without enhanced senses
Probably astral overwatch watching our every step
Unknown number of enemies at least one mage and one wired guy who is using heavies in inhabited house - means unscruppulous pros or scared trigger happy ammateurs, I dont know what is worse.
Target probably running away via stairs that are unreachable for us.

Sorry, but that strategy part we skipped over when we just walked in the trap after the elevator doors opened. Now there are just consequencies.

Kot

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« Reply #241 on: <03-24-11/1219:21> »
That's how a mission without legwork looks like. And Inca made us skip Legwork entirely. We could have gotten like three rolls for Legwork, and that wouldn't even happen.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

Sichr

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« Reply #242 on: <03-24-11/1233:24> »
Like I said.
Lets try to survive this and next time we would do our homeworks right.
Because now its like we spawned in what looks like:

The territory under enemies surveillance.
Enemy is prepared for the action and have a plan.
Enemy has escape routes we have no chance to block or controll.
And he is prepared to use them and have an exit strategy.

vs.:

We have no moment of surprise
We dont know the battlefield
We dont have any plan
we dont know how strong the enemy is
we have acces to only one of all possible entry/exit points

thats just a basic list. From this point it seems like we act like a bunch of absolute ammateurs.

inca1980

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« Reply #243 on: <03-24-11/1322:18> »
@Kot:
Ok, you can only counterspell those team members who are LOS.  Since Zach is unconscious, maybe calling your bound spirit from the metaplanes might be a good option.  It's whatever you choose, but whatever it is post it in the IC thread.  Any actions, rolls, or anything else that your character does I want in the IC thread....and if it's an OOC statement then just put it in those brackets.  OOC thread is to not clutter up the IC thread with meta-discussion like this post i'm posting right now :)

@Sichr:

This wasn't a trap, they had no idea you were coming....but Zach just stepped out of the elevator without even thinking about the Astral Plane....so did Stryker!  Mage and Muscle need to work hand in hand...and if you're up against a team that is doing just that, then this is what happens.

Well, the logical consequence is that the shit hit the fan which is why strategy is more important now than ever.  Ok, i'll just straight out say what I think would be a good idea.  This is not like some kind of thing i planned, this is just me assessing the situacion which you guys totally created.   

Stryker needs to wait until Brick gets to the other side of the southern hallway and can lay down some supressing fire (not necesarily the FA action), and once Brick spends a free action to give the sign that the hall is clear, Stryker should grab Zach to Stabilize him.  As long as Brick has that bottom part of the hallway covered then it should be clear and there's no other entrance points to the floor save the elevator; and if there's no other enemies in the other apartments, then Stryker can start healing in relative safety.  Another idea is that the wall next to the grenade blast was only left with a structure rating of 1, armor 12.  Brick could blow it through and Stryker could drag Zach into that apartment and would have some great cover and a safer space to heal Zach.  This are just some ideas....but please debate people.

Stryker though also needs to make sure nothing is watching him on the Astral.  Now it's hard to do all this with a -3 wound modifier...anyone got stim patches?....but it's still doable.

@To whom it may concern:

It just kinda frustrates me that you guys don't really debate strategy all that much and you don't really ask me if X Y and Z are possible or good ideas, but then will be super quick to be like "this is so unfair!".  Everything I have done so far has been sticking to rolls (some of them behind my GM screen) and RAW and house rules as closely as possible, so I think my GM calls aren't too far fetched.  Tell me in a personal message if you think otherwise.  You guys know how UB works...you get dropped into the middle of a combat scenario. 

It's really standard shadowrunner protocol to be ever aware of the Astral Plane....so even if you didn't get to detail the situation as well as you could have in a full blown shadowrun with legwork and all, you still got a TON of room for maneuvering in my opinion.  I started you off in the elevator, not the hallway for a reason....so that you don't start off in the middle of danger.  If you really feel that something I'm doing is just way out of sync with the character or nature of Shadowrun or truly "unfair", then let me know in a personal message....but next time you want to post something like "If the GM had only...." or "In my games I usually....."...just think for a second if you truly feel it's unfair....like you really think i'm not just presenting you with a challenge, i'm actually rigging things so that you get fragged, or at least maimed....then by all means let me know.  But if you think that maybe a little strategy and discussion with your fellow teamates could have prevented a situation, or if you feel that this is more than just a "fun" amount of the "unfairness" of shadowrunning being a dangerous profession, then when you criticize the adventure you're kind of undermining the legitimacy and fun of doing a PbP role-playing game. 

It's a trust thing.  You trust me that I try to make my NPC's and scenarios work by the same rules of the game which constrain and determine the players actions, and whenever I don't do that it's for a good plot reason to tell a good story and that i'm always trying to stay balanced and not just trying to see you get blown to pieces....and then the GM trusts that you'll accept the world which he is presenting to you at face value.  When this trust is there then role-playing games start getting really fun because you feel like your character is really living in a world with cause, effect and flavoer and you're not just going through some motions.

No hard feelings, just want to let you know how I feel.  I really think it's cool that this is already the 3rd Urban Brawl scenario and it's fun to see Brick and Stryker develop as characters through Karma, cred and roleplaying.  Even though these are just combat scenarios, i try to put some loose plot elements in it.  Hopefully Zach will live to develop too, and if I were you i'd be excited because the next time he's at a his favorite runner bar down in Renton, when the shaman who's assensed him asks him why he got the liver replacement, he'll be able to growl out between his tusks in a thick russian accent..."Back in '72, lost it to some shrapnel from a frag grenade...didn't do a proper astral sweep, shit hit the fan...but we did the job, got paid...can't complain except vodka gives me the runs now..."  ...and it won't be just character background, he'll be able to say that for real.  I don't know man, but for me that's what Shadowrun is all about. :) 

Like this guy I play table-top with, he plays this really beautiful elf infiltrator/face chick but she went into overflow damage in a fight with a squad of fire-spirits near the docks in Lagos.  One spirit hugged her real tight and burned her hand, when it finally got magically healed her fingers ended up fused together....so she had to go to the chop-shop off of a marketplace  and get it loped off and now she's got a cyber-hand with a shock-hand attachment.  So at the present moment she's sailing away from the coast of Nigeria with 500 nuyen worth of Cowry shells in her pocket from winning an MMA fight with an african troll AND a brand spanking new cyber-hand....bad-bitch :)  Now tell me that that's not cooler than paying like 2 BP at character creation!  That's shadowrun dude!  Maybe i'm masochistic but I only really start digging a character once it's been scarred...or even better yet...killed...Just a nice big R.I.P. written on the character sheet and all the players in the room standing for a moment of silence :) 
« Last Edit: <04-06-11/1516:55> by inca1980 »

Sichr

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« Reply #244 on: <03-24-11/1333:40> »
You know...when I was stepping out of the elevator, Stryker was uncounsciousness and target was on move. I habve no abbility to see astral and, RAW, there is no way that uncounsciousness should be healed before it heals alone...and that takes at least ten minutes. I had to move with no other options, if I wanted to success in the mission. That communication jamming is something I didnt catch. And when i got to the corner, the grenade was already on its way. And if that motherfucker is that good, Brick is highly probably running against another hot potatoe, because enemy didnt have to make more than a few steps.


EDIT:
To make it clear..I trust you about the rolls etc. Otherwise Ill be off week ago. But..talking about strategy...It is maybe 7 seconds after we entred the level. What we should have said we said in IC thread, there is no time or space to discuss strategy in OOC thread this isnt how things work...you know...character just freezes in the midle of the move with the "Sorry, my player just take a time to discuss strategy with other players...and aftere he returns to game, we would have a plan"

That would be unfair and I hate this idea. Character should know from each other just what they say to each other. If they didnt have a time to discuss strategy, more than we did in IC, so OOC thread is not for any planning or playing, is it? What should we discuss? I cannot give Kot any advice on how he should play hios character, and until we didnt make any agreements before, I didnt even know if his character is willing to save my ass. If he does so, Ill be gratefull, but in this moment im not able even to call "pliiizzz heeeellp im dying".. Nor giving Teyl any tactical advices...he knows his job.
« Last Edit: <03-24-11/1401:14> by Sichr »

inca1980

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« Reply #245 on: <03-24-11/1404:56> »
@Sichr:

Well, that was where we had the confusion about you "listening to the doors" and i thought you went to those doors, but you meant that you only wanted to point your directional mike AT the doors.  But in any case on the astral plane your aura is like a lightbulb, so the Spirits assensing test still caught you cuz you weren't infiltrating on the astral since you can't see the astral.  Zach wouldn't even have a clear idea of how aura's work and how far out they extend etc. etc. cuz he has no assensing skill.  So you peaked out and exposed your aura to the hallway before Stryker was unconscious.

Sichr

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« Reply #246 on: <03-24-11/1411:17> »
Ok i take that, but the elevator with opened doors, where we were standing is clearly visible from the corridor and technicaly taht space is a part of the corridor for that monent, so what difference there is if I look out for the moment or I stay in the elevator, I can be assensed that way or another, IMHO...?

inca1980

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« Reply #247 on: <03-24-11/1423:55> »
Ya, but it's impossible to play it safe on a shadowrun....you can only play it safer.  Besides, if the spirit had been right in front of the elevator doors, it definitely would have had initiative and materialized to attack you guys.  Instead as soon as Stryker astrally projected, it took it's next turn to attack him.
« Last Edit: <03-24-11/1426:04> by inca1980 »

Kot

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« Reply #248 on: <03-24-11/1428:03> »
The thing is, I don't have any bound spirits. And wasting time to summon one would mean risking Zach's life. And that's pretty much what Stryker wants to avoid - he's the type that would risk his life to save his teammate, even if he's one that was just met...

As I wrote - giving us a chance to do some one-post legwork would be enough. If this was a real game, I wouldn't even get close to the building without a summoned spirit, a bunch of watchers, and serious astral recon...
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

Sichr

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« Reply #249 on: <03-24-11/1446:02> »
@Inca: next time Ill be prepared. For this run, like I said, Im done. At least 10 minutes to recover from uncounsciousness, even if I survived....see you in UB4 i suppose

@Kot: And Ive sopended some time climbing the rooftops of surrounding buildings, scanning somunications and looking for power lines etc. :)

err.  fuck it. lets get it done a nd get out of here.

inca1980

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« Reply #250 on: <03-24-11/1733:58> »
You could abort the run too....that's an always an option....just walk away. 

Teyl_Iliar

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« Reply #251 on: <03-24-11/1742:12> »
guys? i'm all for having this talk since it seems to be a re-occuring topic, but can we not have it mid run? lets just do what we can to get out of this and maybe get paid before looking like mooks. aborting is an option but not one i'm jumping on yet. NOW, WHO'S TURN IS IT AND WOULD THEY KINDLY GO SO WE CAN SLAY SOME MOTHERFUCKERS? >:(
UB
Brick
speaking
ITF
Slip
speaking
thinking
comm

Kot

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« Reply #252 on: <03-24-11/1815:58> »
Says the guy who's not rendered unconscious or useless by the first action he attempts. :P
But yeah, let's. Try at least...
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

Sichr

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« Reply #253 on: <03-25-11/0224:50> »
Im never aborting (thats why they call me Sichr="For sure" in german), but Im wasted :)
So you are definitely not waiting for my turn...

GET THOSE BASTARDS. GOOD LUCK !!

Sichr

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« Reply #254 on: <03-25-11/0352:26> »
LOL. Lets say...Shadowrunnig should be fun. This aint. Bye.