[Katrex]

Eclipse phase inspired character gen.

You start with 400 bp.

Your character starts with 3 in all stats; You may lower those stats by up to 4, for additional bp. Lowering a stat to 1 makes you incompetent with linked skills and tests  But grants you an extra 10bp (I.e. 3 down  to 1 grants 30bp). Note the gm may require tests for things people take for granted..

Choose a metatype, You may not choose a metatype would reduce a score to 0.

Choose a background, (backgrounds typically positive and negative dice pool modifiers, alter your street cred and notoriety, starting money and anything else deemed appropriate.) EG Motorbike ganger: +1 Pilot groundcraft +1 Intimidation +1 blades, +1 notoriety -1 knowledge academic May not take affiliation that requires a sin.

Choose an affiliation (A corp, syndicate, gang and so on) For example: Evo corp: Advantage +1 to biotech, recieves 10% discount on augmentations. Disadvantage SINer + Records on file (Evo)

150 Bp ,ust be spend on Skills
100Bp must be spent on knowledge skills (4bp per point)

150 to spend on:
Buy street cred 10bp per 1 street cred max 30bp.
Buy stats
buy magic
Buy edge
Buy qualities
Buy gear

Choose motivations. These help you regain edge,



Why do I suggest this character gen system. I think it reduces minmaxing a little. Like taking a troll with impaired attribute logic and increasing it to 2 with no penalty..

Skills more important, and because you have to take them, you get a little more variety than.

Combat skill 6 perception 4 gymnastics 4 unarmed 4 First aid 1,

You'd have instead, Athletics 3, outdoors 1, Combat skill 6,  perception 4 gymnastics 4 unarmed 4 First aid 2 armorer 3 Computer 1, Throw 3(grenades)

I think it creates better characters. because back grounds affiliations and skills tend to be more cohesive and at the same time broad, less hypersepcialised. the characters tend to have more interesting and developed side themes/ interests hobbies etc.

 Its not hard to customize each gm can create their own backgrounds and affiliations which can guide the players towards the story.Ie you only create affiliations and backgrounds which have a place in the metaplot of your campaign. That way you have a little less lets get distracted by this characters side story (or more likely we dont have time for it, or its boring for the other characters) and more this characters side story is actually part of the main plot,

Anyway let me know your thoughts on it. Dont obsess too much with the exact numbers. Its the idea not the aplication we're dealing with right now.

[Mirikon]

Meh. Overcomplicated system for too little return. There's a much better way to deal with min-maxing than rewriting chargen. I call it the "Hit the player with a phone book" method. How it works is that you hit the offending player with a phone book until they stop being an idiot, or go to the hospital, whichever comes first.

[Novocrane]

And then, for those of us who are looking for a system of chargen that positively encourages character choices ...

Would / could the affiliation simply be a net zero cost group of qualities, approved (or suggested) by the GM?

[Katrex]

Yep thats basicly what they are... but the advantages and disadvantages should make sense obviously and not be too op. Perhaps the bonus's should add to the skill and not be a modifier so you cant just stack modifiers even higher.
and they dont count against your quality limit.

Also qualities I think should be much more impacting, its why I dont like qualities like outdoorsman or perceptive that just give flat bonus to skills and absolutely love things like, mentor spirit or erased. But affiliations small skill bonus's make sense.

[Snake Eyes]

Meh. Overcomplicated system for too little return. There's a much better way to deal with min-maxing than rewriting chargen. I call it the "Hit the player with a phone book" method. How it works is that you hit the offending player with a phone book until they stop being an idiot, or go to the hospital, whichever comes first.

Yup

[Katrex]

I dont see how its so complicated. You start with 3 in all stats, modify by metatype. choose a background and afiliation. Spend skill points. Spend rest of your bp on whatever you like.

[Mirikon]

I dont see how its so complicated. You start with 3 in all stats, modify by metatype. choose a background and afiliation. Spend skill points. Spend rest of your bp on whatever you like.

Which is much more complicated than "Here are your BP, spend them how you like, but if you do something stupid, I'll hit you with a phone book." Saying that you must have X number in this category and Y number in that category also restricts customization and eliminates some character types altogether.

[Katrex]

Hmm To a degree maybe, but you're getting extra points to spend on those skills. This 400bp point build is actualy 460bp, with 25 free ranks in knowledge. So most things you wanted to build before you can. Except characters who would have spent less than 90 on skill points. Most charecters i see with that few skill points tend to be min maxed heavily

[Mithlas]

I like this better than the Priority System, but I still have to agree with Mirikon. If it's intended to stop Min-Maxers, it won't. They're there because they adapt to the system. Of course, if you can get them to roleplay they're really not such a problem.

Min-Maxing is a problem with the players, not with the system

((In an off-topic note: I like your avatar, Snake Eyes. It's nice to see CABAL again))

[emsquared]

It seems like it'd be a good system for people coming from MMO's or boardgames or something, in that i can see how you're trying to make chargen mechanically story driven. But experienced role-players are still going to build what they want to build. And they're still going to RP just as we'll as they would RP with a 300 BP char. If you want to have some arbitrary power limit in an experienced RPing group though, just let them know before chargen.

This system is unnecessary unless your players are new to RP.

[Mirikon]

Mithlas and emsquared are correct. There is no system that will prevent min-maxers from min-maxing. That is a personality thing, as well as a playstyle thing. You don't go messing with the engine because a driver breaks the speed limit, do you? No, you turn on the blue lights and give them a ticket, maybe even take their license. Your system, Katrex, won't stop min-maxers. It just makes things more complicated for everyone else.

If you want to stop min-maxers, do what any DM is supposed to do, and check over charsheets before someone is allowed to play. And if there's anything wrong, beat them with a phone book. Simple. (I prefer the Atlanta phone book, myself. Nice and heavy.)

[All4BigGuns]

Mithlas and emsquared are correct. There is no system that will prevent min-maxers from min-maxing. That is a personality thing, as well as a playstyle thing. You don't go messing with the engine because a driver breaks the speed limit, do you? No, you turn on the blue lights and give them a ticket, maybe even take their license. Your system, Katrex, won't stop min-maxers. It just makes things more complicated for everyone else.

If you want to stop min-maxers, do what any DM is supposed to do, and check over charsheets before someone is allowed to play. And if there's anything wrong, beat them with a phone book. Simple. (I prefer the Atlanta phone book, myself. Nice and heavy.)

Mirikon is entirely correct here. However, I don't bother looking over sheets, but then I trust the other people in the group (the majority of the group has taken turns in the GM seat, with me taking it the least of those who have). One of those who hasn't, well the most to worry about from him is cracked out characters of some sort--possibly with some 'furry' aspect.

[Triggvi]

the easy solution to min/maxing is Karmagen. The reason people min/max is point efficiency. The best point efficiency for Karmagen is lots of moderate skills. You get good stats and a broad base of skills that BP gen doesn't give you.

[Mirikon]

Triggvi, as stated, there is no system that prevents min/maxing. The essence of min/maxing is minimizing vulnerabilities and maximizing capabilities. Unless you intentionally build ineffective characters, every player does this to some extent. Karmagen is no less open to extreme min/maxing than the BP system is, it just has different areas of attack.

This falls squarely into the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" category.

[Triggvi]

Triggvi, as stated, there is no system that prevents min/maxing. The essence of min/maxing is minimizing vulnerabilities and maximizing capabilities. Unless you intentionally build ineffective characters, every player does this to some extent. Karmagen is no less open to extreme min/maxing than the BP system is, it just has different areas of attack.

This falls squarely into the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" category.

I don't believe there is such a thing as ineffective characters only ineffective players.

Of course you can min/max anything, but trying to min/max in karmagen is harder and less productive. The basic build system has been somewhat broken for sometime in that It encourages min/maxing by pure point efficiency. To be efficient with bp you need a few super high skills and very few moderate or no moderate ones. Karmagen is just the opposite with skills. Also with karmagen the GM has the easy flexibility to allow initiation using karma and other things that require spending karma.