[maddoctor]

Here comes a new question.
I have a Remigton 990 Shotgun. The stats are:
7P damage, -1 AP, SA Fire Mode
9P (f) damage, +2 AP when using Flechette

The rules when firing shotgun SR4A page 154 states:
Narrow Spread: Use the shotgun’s standard flechette-modified (+2 DV, +5 AP) Damage Code.  <This is inconsistent with the table above, flechette for the Remington gives +2 DV and +3 AP not +5 AP>
Medium Spread: Taking into account the flechette ammunition, they inflict +0 DV, +7 AP.
Wide Spread: Taking into account the flechette ammunition, they inflict –2 DV, +9 AP.

<edit> I made a wrong question, here is the correct one: how do I fire a Remigton shotgun WITHOUT the flechette rounds? </edit>

[_Pax_]

Okay, this one may be a bit roundabout, but here's an answer that hopefully helps:

If a gun's listing doesn't have (f) after it's damage code, then it is not firing Flechette (or "shot") ammunition.  Even teh shotguns ... that 7P for the Remington 990, is based on it firing a solid slug.  Basically, a single really big bullet.

if you load Shot rounds into a shotgun, it uses the Flechette rules.

A "Narrow Spread" - where the gun is keeping all the little individual bits pretty close together - does +2 damage, BUT, it's Armor Piercing suffers a +5 penalty.  (Important note: +'s are bad when talking about Armor Piercing, -'s are good.)  So with a narrow spread, the Remington deals 9p(f), and it has AP +4 (versus Impact, not Ballistic).

When firing a "Medium Spread", teh gun is letting the individual bits of lead spread out a little more.  The damage isn't as good, nor is the armor penetration - but it does have benefits: you can attack up to two close-together targets, AND, every target you fire at has a -2 on their Reaction roll (it's harder to dodge a scattered handful of little bullets, than a single one).   That Remington 990 would have a damage code of "DV 7P(f), AP +6 vs Impact".

Finally, when firing a "Wide Spread", the gun is lettign those individual projectils spread out a whole lot.  You can attack up to three targets with one trigger-pull, and each of them suffers -4 dice from their Reaction roll to not get hit.  However, the damage code sifes penalties: -2 damage, +9 armorpenetration.  Thus, the Remington 990 would have "DV 5P(f), AP +8 vs Impact".

...

If you want to fire a Remington without flechette rounds?  Don't load flechette rounds.  It'll deal "DV 7P, AP -1 vs. Ballistic".  Weapons are only using Flechette rules by default, if you see that important little (f) in their Damage Value.

Do note, if you fire just a solid slug (the 7P, AM-1 version) ...?  You can't set the spread at all.  Like any other one-bullet-at-a-time gun, it's also a one-target-at-a-time gun.

Another note: the rules for Flechettes were changed.  They're no longer just a +3 to the AP value, they're a full +5.  So, again, a Remington 990 firing Flechettes in a Narrow Spread deals 9P(f) AP+4.  The table listing "AP +2" is simply incorrect.  Yayy, Errata.  *sigh*

[maddoctor]

Awesome and quick reply

[_Pax_]

Happy coincidence, I was checking the forums one more time before trying to beat insomnia and actually get some sleep. 

[maddoctor]

My personal Q & A thread hehe

Can someone "default" on Dodge? So when in full defense use Reaction+(Reaction-1) instead of Reaction + Dodge?
Or Block without Unarmed Combat rolling Reaction + (Agility -1) etc

Also nodes roll Analyze + Firewall to find a hacker, what's the rank of Analyze for a node (if it has no running Analyze program)?

[Black]

It isn't just SR that has this issue.  Every game system I've played - SR, AD&D, Heroes Unlimited, Rifts - they've all got "canon" characters in their books that bend, tweak, or even outright break the creation rules.  Don't let it get you down - just look at them and remind yourself that they are samples to be taken with a grain of salt and used sparingly at best.

Probably because most of the sample characters are made with a "beta version" of the rules, during the playtest process ... and changes that make it into the final version of the rules, aren't accounted for in the sample characters.

That, and nobody ever intends to actually try to PLAY those characters ... so they all suffer from a case of "eh, good enough".

Not entirely true Pax.  Two of my players use template characters, the Inflitrator and the Gun Adept.  We recently redid the Gun Adept using the 1,000 pt karma change (*sigh*), but the inflitrator is straight from the book with.. hmm.. fifty or so karma spent.

That said, I think no one should use those examples.  My infiltrator player's character is next on the schedule for revamps...

[TheVanguard]

I'm afarid that the rules don't offer a clear solution here. As per the table on pg. 120 SR4A, you may default on Dodge. Now, usually a skill test involves rolling Attribute + Skill, while defaulting means that you only get your Attribute -1. If we assume that Full Defense would be a normal Dodge skill test with Reaction + Dodge, this would mean that you'd only roll Reaction -1 when defaulting, making this worse than a normal defense roll. You might rationalize this by assuming that people who don't know the first thing about firefights tend to expose themselves in inconvenient ways when trying to make a conscious strategic decision.

Personally, I'd rule that the Full Defense test against ranged attacks is not a normal skill test and may not be defaulted on. You may default, however, if you have to make a Dodge test in a non-combat situation.

Defending against melee attacks, on the other hand, is a different matter because you get to roll Attribute+ Skill with a normal defense action (NOT Full Defense), so I'd say that this is pretty much a standard skill test and you will HAVE TO default if you don't have the appropriate weapon skill, Unarmed Combat or Dodge, essentially rolling Reaction -1. Don't play with the big boys if you can't take care of yourself.

[TheNarrator]

Can someone "default" on Dodge? So when in full defense use Reaction+(Reaction-1) instead of Reaction + Dodge?
Or Block without Unarmed Combat rolling Reaction + (Agility -1) etc

No. Absolutely not. Given that attributes can get much higher than skills (especially for a street sam), that would make not having the skill better than having it.

Also nodes roll Analyze + Firewall to find a hacker, what's the rank of Analyze for a node (if it has no running Analyze program)?

It would be zero, so you'd just roll Firewall.

[maddoctor]

I thought so. It would make zero sense to roll twice your reaction (-1) if you don't have dodge trained.

[TheVanguard]

You wouldn't roll Reaction + Reaction -1 even if you could default. The skill test would be Reaction + Dodge, and defaulting would be Reaction -1.