[Dog Boy]

I just made my first technomancer, and I've found myself with a lot of rule questions.

The first one: I know that data bombs are bad news from a technomancer, since they now do Ratingxd6 of damage to someone. So, a rating 6 data could easily kill most technomancers outright. That's because technomancers don't have a matrix status, and thus all their damage taken goes to stun (and then to health). The canonical solution to this is to really jam up your defuse form (which is kind of wasteful), or "bishop should go man! He's not even real" -- let your sprite open any and all files you see.

Thinking about this a bit more, I wondered if this might be a strategy:

- I know that technomancers can actually use AR (even through their organic node)
- In AR, the data bomb should not do damage to me directly (right?).

Am I wrong about this? I guess it'd be good to know the answer to two general questions:

(i) What does a data bomb do to a normal Matrix user in AR?
(ii) What would one do to a technomancer?

If anyone has any insights on this, it's much appreciated -- this is my first Shadowrun campaign in basically fifteen years, and a lot of the rules about Matrix stuff are somewhat vague at best!

[UmaroVI]

A mundane hacker in AR would take Matrix Damage from the data bomb. See SR4A 233. Actually, this is true regardless of whether they are in hot sim, cold sim, or AR: it does Matrix Damage. The only way this will do real damage is if enough is done to crash the hacker, and they take Dumpshock.

Technomancers, however, always take Stun in place of Matrix Damage; SR4A 239. This isn't conditional on being in AR or VR.

[Dog Boy]

Ok, makes sense.

Next question:
[Suppose technomancer has 10/10 for his damage tracks]
So, suppose my technomancer opens a booby trapped data bomb and rolls 25 points of damage.

Does he take 10 points of stun damage, get knocked unconscious, then get dumpshocked?
Or, does he take 10 points of stun damage, then 10 points of real damage, and then croaks?

[rasmusnicolaj]

If a technomancer is knocked unconscious, his Living Persona crashes.

SR4A p 239
That would imply the former.

Instead, they use their own Stun and Physical Condition Monitors. This means that any damage a technomancer takes in the real world will impede his Matrix abilities, and vice versa.

Same place (emphasis mine).
And that would probably imply the later.

Personally I would say that the Technomancer would get the full 25 damage and have his head explode 
I'm not that versed in the Matrix part of the game though so somebody else may correct me if I'm wrong.

Regards
Rasmus

[Falconer]

I don't know if his biofeedback filter and soak kick in or not... I'd like to think the answer is yes.

But looking through the rules can't find anything to support this.


Rather than the techno doing it himself... he could have tossed the job to a sprite or even an agent... and crashed it instead.  Nothing stopping a techno from running a decoy commlink with a half-decent agent on it which can 'take one for the team' now and then.

[raggedhalo]

I suspect that he might take the 25 to Stun and Physical, and have to resist dumpshock too.  Ouch.

[UmaroVI]

They soak with System+Armor (since it's matrix damage, see SR4A 239). It overflows (the only thing that does not overflow is Blackout). There's no special exception about what happens to Technomancers who crash, so if they get KO'd while in VR, they take dumpshock. If they are in AR, they don't take dumpshock for crashing.

[Dog Boy]

They soak with System+Armor (since it's matrix damage, see SR4A 239). It overflows (the only thing that does not overflow is Blackout). There's no special exception about what happens to Technomancers who crash, so if they get KO'd while in VR, they take dumpshock. If they are in AR, they don't take dumpshock for crashing.

So, this is what got me (still) uncertain about Data Bomb (and if you think about it, simple Attack as well);

Given that there is a distinction between the two forms of Black IC for people in hotsim (one which knocks you out, the other which overflows), there is the implication that other stuff *wouldn't* overflow, which is why I was puzzled about Data Bomb damage (and still am: There is apparently nothing in the text which is definitive.. ugh).

I guess this is at its heart a question about how damage is applied and when.

If my technomancer is fighting some AI, and the AI uses the attack form against me, and does enough matrix damage (converted to stun damage) to knock me out and then some, does *that* damage overflow to physical? Or does it just go to 0, then trigger KO, then dump shock me, then the other damage doesn't apply since I'm no longer in VR. ["If at any time the technomancer falls unconscious, either in the Matrix or in the meat world, the living persona shuts down just as if someone had switched a commlink. The technomancer will have to reboot per normal rules. Only Black IC attacks have been shown to be able to trap the technomancer online while unconscious (p. 231, SR4)."]

[ArkangelWinter]

Because you're taking the overflow as the same attack as the stun, it goes over to physical and you pass out. Then do Dumpshock.

[hobgoblin]

the default is that stun overflows, so blackout is a exeption.

[Dog Boy]

They soak with System+Armor (since it's matrix damage, see SR4A 239). It overflows (the only thing that does not overflow is Blackout). There's no special exception about what happens to Technomancers who crash, so if they get KO'd while in VR, they take dumpshock. If they are in AR, they don't take dumpshock for crashing.

Well, I guess that's why all guides ever say to not do cybercombat, or do it with sprites. Which is fine; it's just weird that technomancers are the ones who suck at cybercombat, when it "feels" like that the class that is the closest thing to a native denizen to the Matrix is really the one who's got the glass jaw there.

That said, I guess if I put six points into shield, I can easily get around 12-13 dice for that first defense roll, even without threading.

[Falconer]

If you go with shield the shield complex form you can make a fairly nasty techno cybercombatant....

Especially with a sprite to sustain it... but really after a certain point.  You might as well just dispatch the sprite with the shield form to fight for you and instead stealth yourself so deeply even you don't know what you are.  (tank and paladin sprites are pretty nasty).


Also another way to deal with the databomb is to use a paladin sprite and use it's castling power to redirect damage to sprite instead of you.

[RelentlessImp]

I notice people talking about the Attack program; doesn't that only affect icons and programs? Wouldn't a Technomancer (and Sprites) be immune to this program by default?

[Dog Boy]

I notice people talking about the Attack program; doesn't that only affect icons and programs? Wouldn't a Technomancer (and Sprites) be immune to this program by default?

I assume this is because you are (have) an icon, and that's what attack targets. For a hacker or other user, attack's damage is matrix damage; for a technomancer, it's stun (possibly overflowing to physical -- per this thread).

[UmaroVI]

Nope, technos have icons like everyone else. They are not immune to attack.