[Glorthoron]

I've been reading through the Ritual Spellcasting, and, is it my imagination, or is it pretty useless?

[JustADude]

I've been reading through the Ritual Spellcasting, and, is it my imagination, or is it pretty useless?

Yeah, pretty much.

You can save yourself 8 BP as a mage and ignore it and Banishing, since a Force 12 Stunbolt is pretty much always superior to Banishing.

Sorcery 4 + Conjuring 4 = 80 BP

Spellcasting 6 + Counterspelling 4 + Summoning 4 + Binding 4 = 72 BP

[KommissarK]

I don't think its useless.... it just seems to be useless to a player. If you have a strong group of magicians, you can do some pretty terrifying things with pretty minimal chances of getting caught.

Now, I'll agree, its not very BP efficient, but I don't think that alone should be the sole criteria by which things should be considered.

The use of material/sympathetic/symbolic links make the whole spotter mess pretty unnecessary, and the Great Ritual metamagic can cause the actual size of the group casting to get pretty big fairly quickly (and alleviates the need for everyone to have a high ritual spellcasting). Since the extra participants will be adding dice when they make the test, the penalties from the links versus normal spotting are pretty much negated.

[Demerzel]

Now, I'll agree, its not very BP efficient, but I don't think that alone should be the sole criteria by which things should be considered.

I couldn't say it better.

Rituals have flavor. In fact, not just flavor, but flavor!

Play the character you'll enjoy playing, not the one that is the most efficient.

[Glorthoron]

The use of material/sympathetic/symbolic links make the whole spotter mess pretty unnecessary, and the Great Ritual metamagic can cause the actual size of the group casting to get pretty big fairly quickly (and alleviates the need for everyone to have a high ritual spellcasting). Since the extra participants will be adding dice when they make the test, the penalties from the links versus normal spotting are pretty much negated.

I assume Street Magic?  Haven't gotten there yet. 

That would make a differencek, though.  The reason I commented on it being useless is because (as per core rules, which is what we are running with so far) you have to have someone being the spotter.  Why wouldn't the spotter just nail the person with the spell himself?

[VuuduuHedd]

Because the ritual spell might hit the target a whole lot harder, I expect.

[Mirikon]

To the OP, Ritual Spellcasting is a niche item. You are right that it is useless in combat. Or in most quick-time runs. When a run goes longer, though, or you're tasked with running someone down, or you need to do a spell with a big whammy, then it is very useful. So for many magicians, especially those dealing with R&D and other such things, it does have its uses. They just don't lend themselves to running.

[Black]

Ritual Spellcasting can be very useful for tracking if you have a material link.

In our case, the runners where after a target who was taken by a rival team while our heroes engaged the body guards.  In the aftermath they got some... physical samples of the target and used it to track him down and grab him before the rivals left town.

In regards to the spotter, I thought the spotter is in the astral and thus unable to directly target a person in the physical.  They just provide line of sight for the ritual magic coming down the pipeline...

[raggedhalo]

In regards to the spotter, I thought the spotter is in the astral and thus unable to directly target a person in the physical.  They just provide line of sight for the ritual magic coming down the pipeline...

Exactly so.

[Glorthoron]

In regards to the spotter, I thought the spotter is in the astral and thus unable to directly target a person in the physical.  They just provide line of sight for the ritual magic coming down the pipeline...

Exactly so.

But you can still conjure a spirit in astral, and command him to attack the target.  Wouldn't that just be simpler?  Less drain, and equally as effective.

plus, if you are sitting in the astral, spotting the target, you are an easy target for astral security.

mumbo jumbo, icky wicky . . . three hours into the ritual, the spell is about to be cast and the target's astral security finally spots the spotter, and kills him.  What a waste.  If the spotter only had to see the target for the spellcasting roll, and not sit there watching the target for the entire duration, it might be more useful.

[UmaroVI]

Yeah, the main use of Ritual Spellcasting is doing it over a link, rather than with a spotter. See Street Magic 28-29. It's actually not overly hard to kill someone you've never been on the same continent as, it's just really slow (especially if they are not stupid and are hiding behind a barrier). Of course, they can respond by tracking your ritual spell back to you.

[Black]

There's a meta magic technique to counter that.  The hard part is find a viable link, the rest is just time and effort.  I would general recommend going with a spotter, unless desperate and then with spirit protection of some sort.

[raggedhalo]

But you can still conjure a spirit in astral, and command him to attack the target.  Wouldn't that just be simpler?  Less drain, and equally as effective.

I've just realised that I have been carrying over the SR3 assumption that you can't summon whilst astrallyu projecting. Huh. Do you happen to know if there's an explicit ruling either way in SR4A?

That said, you could use a bound spirit to avoid it as an issue anyway. There's a chance the target will just fight off a spirit, though.

[Glorthoron]

But you can still conjure a spirit in astral, and command him to attack the target.  Wouldn't that just be simpler?  Less drain, and equally as effective.

I've just realised that I have been carrying over the SR3 assumption that you can't summon whilst astrallyu projecting. Huh. Do you happen to know if there's an explicit ruling either way in SR4A?

That said, you could use a bound spirit to avoid it as an issue anyway. There's a chance the target will just fight off a spirit, though.

Unless he's awakened, good luck. 

Was that the case in SR3?  I played for years and don't remember that rule.

[raggedhalo]

Was that the case in SR3?  I played for years and don't remember that rule.

Yeah, both were on the list of exclusive magical actions IIRC.