[Cailieg]

My current GM had a nasty idea for her game, and my initial reaction when she ran it by me (She is still learning the nuances of SR4A)  was "NO! Terribly rule breaking is what that is!".... then I realized that the 6th world changes, things move onward, things paranormal activity may never had encountered to lead to new levels of ugly. So I figured I would ask. Cause for a recurring major villain it seemed pretty wicked of an idea.

If a Master Shedim possesses a Technomancer who is either A)dead or B)Away from flesh in the Resonance... Do they A) Lose their magic stat and become a regenerative Technomancer B) lose the Technomancer quality and become a well versed in esoteric to them lore, Magician formerly known as Technomancer or  C)become GM evil fodder rules anathema keeping both and becoming all kinds of wrong (like ALL kinds of wrong; obviously what she was aiming for)?

I would imagine if, as I have heard, Bull brainboxed these horrible little lovelies into existence, he would know best.

But I welcome thoughts, ideas, and flat out rulings from other GMs

Edit- My ruling would be death takes the Resonance stat. I would only have to think; hand to chin in a pondering pose, if the Technomancer was still alive. But I would likely rule that the Flesh carries no specific Resonance and it is a spiritual thing with machines instead of magic. So again a likely rule of Resonance loss.


Alexis
*smiles*

[UmaroVI]

A Shedim can't possess a technomancer who is hotsimming. Technomancy is NotMagic and they don't Astrally Project; Shedim can't possess them unless they are dead.

Regardless, Possession overwrites special states. Resonance abilities are suppressed and the vessel has the Shedim's magic for the duration. The Shedim does indeed have Magician (and not Technomancer) and hence can cast spells and stuff. They are no different from any other Possession spirit in this regard; see Street Magic 102 "Living Vessels" in the sidebar. Basically, there's no real difference between a Mundane and a Technomancer for possession spirits.

[JoeNapalm]

That, and...GMs are the final arbiter.

*Grin*

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Cailieg]

Ah but this line in Threats 2 is what gave her the idea. And I commend her for doing her lore research when she came up with it. Granted we are in a new version, but bear with where it came from.

Threats 2 pg 54, bottom of left column, final paragraph, sentence that brought this up.. -"The Master Shedim inherits all of the persons skills, Edges and Flaws, personality quirks, likes and dislikes."

Edges and Flaws became Qualities; and Technomancer is a quality, ergo I could see where she might get the idea. Since they "gain the Magician quality if they did not possess it" and already have the Technomancer quality. The following sentence does add a hiccup with the "does not gain their magic skills or spells" so even if it did allow it, the damned thing would have scant idea of how to use them. It does also say that a Shedim can take full use of Implants, which would mean they are capable of VR and AR in the modern days if they get a Cybered Decker.

Granted I would rule generally the same was you do (hence my original NO! which felt to me a bit harsh, which is why I asked), but I might argue about whether or not I consider them to be "home" when in hotsimming mode (different discussion, the Shedim would not know if he was "home" anyway without the right perception to see such; and the Shedim in question was aiming to kill and possess).

I however, can see where she came up with the nasty idea. Also, as the Sixth world advances, I would hate to see a bunch of neat ideas just be fiat exempted from occurring to Technomancers. Either Technomancy is an evolution of the awakened world or an anomaly.

Alexis
*smiles*

[Cailieg]

Oh and remember this comes from the section that basically says.

"Master Shedim possession does not work exactly the same as normal possession, they have a unique more powerful version"


Alexis
*smiles*

[Chrona]

I would hate to see a bunch of neat ideas just be fiat exempted from occurring to Technomancers. Either Technomancy is an evolution of the awakened world or an anomaly.

Alexis
*smiles*

Or it's completely new and non-awakened

[Cailieg]

Which to me would fall under an "anomaly' in the magic cycle. Similar to a dead zone.

The natural flow of Magic coming and going would not and could not account for this if that is the ruling. Or it has not yet accounted for it. I.E. Perhaps later as we near a more Magitech style status in the world, maybe in the eighth world who knows...

I merely tried to play devil's advocate for her before she resorted to "takes an adept" or "takes an astrally active mage" because one way or another this Shedim has set up an attack on a location the PCs can help in order to cause a distraction and get the Defense Force out on a very frightening attack while he makes a smaller ruckus elsewhere to get a body. She just wanted him to be after something unique.

Alexis
*smiles*

[Reaver]

I look back to the rules listed in SR4a under building a shadowrunner....

Pg 82 Magic/Resonance:
......
A character can possess either Magic or Resonance - never both

then on pg 155 of the Street magic book under Master Shedim:

it states that it has a magic rating equal to it's force.


Since the rules states that no character can have both magic and Resonance, then a Master shedim possessing the dead body of a TM would not have resonace either. It would however have a magic rating and spells (chosen by GM). There are no examples of anything (spirit, critter, NPC) that has both ratings (Magic and Resonance) which leads me to believe that everything follows the same basic principals for creation as a Character follows.

Resonance seems to be a technological creation through biologicaladaptation (hence the techno-critters) and seems to be linked to the prevailance of electro-magnetic frequiencies that blanket the earth (again, techno critters) but other theories abound. There is no examples of a Mana entity having knowlodge or skills to affect the digital world ingrained in them (but CAN use those skills of a possessed individual through a mechanical means). So the Master Shedim in a dead technomance COUJLD use the matrix, even hack the matrix through a comlink, but could not compile a sprite, or log into the matrix with the TM alone.

while I agree a GM should be able to do whatever they feel to weave a great story 9and a great game) care should be taken as well to not unbalance the game. There are limitations placed on everyone/everything for a reason.. breaking those limitations can lead to disaster fairly quickly. (imagine the chaos a character how has magic 10 Resonance 10 could inflict on a game..... able to hack anything/anyone  AND summon spirits AND cast neigh-unresistable spells?!?!?!)

[blackangel]

Just a question, ok an entity can't have resonance and magic at the same time.
What happened if "and I say if" someone find a way to transfer the chaneling meta to a technomancer and have a possession spirit do is job on him ?

BA

[hobgoblin]

Using threats2 as a source is a poor choice when there are more recent rules in Street Magic.

Looking into the posession rules in Street Magic, the issue of a possessed TM is specifically brought up (p102 sidebar, Living Vessels).

[Reaver]

Just a question, ok an entity can't have resonance and magic at the same time.
What happened if "and I say if" someone find a way to transfer the chaneling meta to a technomancer and have a possession spirit do is job on him ?

BA

I would have to say that IF he succumbed to the possession, his resonance would be sub pressed. Meaning he is no longer a TM (in anyway that matters).

AND

Since you have to be an initiated Mage to have a meta magic technique, there is no way to "transfer" channelling... You can teach an other initiated Mage, but it's not a program, or an item, it's an acquired ability (like riding a bike).

The only way would be (once again) through possession of the TM and, therefore his resonance is suppressed meaning he can't use his TM abilities (or, rather the spirit can't)

[Johnny Jacks]

What about an insect spirit (or other spirit with Inhabitation)?

[Reaver]

What about an insect spirit (or other spirit with Inhabitation)?

Considering once a person is inhabited everything that they were is essentially destroyed, distilled fragments of what they were with no "core humanity" (the essence of their very soul as a person) left? It's game over. And again, IF they have a magic rating of 1+, resonance MUST be 0. Therefore, no longer a TM.

It might have memories (distilled as they are) of what it was like, but the ability has been faded out of them.

[Valashar]

While I agree that a shedim has no special ability to posses a TM who is just normal hotsimming, and a shedim in a TM's body has NO access to their Resonance based abilities (remember, folks that the body is just a sock puppet for the spirit)... I would, however, be willing to give a nod to treating a technomancer who is off in the resonance realms the same as a mage who is projecting (read: an empty shell just waiting to be jumped).

Sure, it's not the same as astral projection but it's not a horrible way to make TMs with a bit of spirit knowledge wet the bed. 

[Mirikon]

Yes, because there aren't enough threats to technomancers out there.