[Mirikon]

There's something I've never understood. I know that a spirit can't use AR or VR, but they can read what is written on a piece of paper or a road sign, right? So why can't they see what is printed on a physical display screen, or use old-fashioned cyberterminals? Afterall, Buttercup has to keep track of all the business that goes through Evo and her own holdings somehow, right? And would a spirit be unable to hear an audio message broadcast from speakers? If so, why?

[Lethe]

Spirits don't have eyes. They only perceive with astral perception. And since they are astral beings they can perceive even better than ghouls. Not only not getting the -2 penalties, but even able to recognize fine differences in texture or material, i.e. ink on paper. The can't perceive light, i.e. AR displays, shadows or images in a mirror.

For that reason they would also not be able to hear audio messages from speakers, they hear as in manifestation.

[Thrass]

what if is possesses a person/machine ?

[Exodus]

I have a separate but related question. Can a person, awakened or otherwise, ride a beast spirit like a horse?

[Lethe]

what if is possesses a person/machine ?

Possessing is only a form of controlling a person, but they are still using their own senses.
But the description in the book is a little contradicting: Saying, possessing spirits can't perceive AR, but can benefit of ones eye replacement. The benefit of eye replacement is not as passive as the other example of bone lacing, so it doesn't really fit. Especially if they are not able to get any of the hosts knowledge, skills or memories, they shouldn't get any of the senses as well.

I have a separate but related question. Can a person, awakened or otherwise, ride a beast spirit like a horse?

Its related to this:

Can materialized spirits use weapons, armor, or other equipment if provided?

Many spirits’ forms are not suited for wearing armor or using weapons, but if their form is suitable and the gear provided they can make use of  hem. Spirits possessing metahuman hosts have a slight advantage here in being able to use most of their host vessel’s equipment. Most spirits do not have the proper skills to make use of weapons; if they do not, then they must default when using them.

Most spirits are probably not suited for "carrying" a person, but a beast spirit in a horse form certainly is.

[Orvich]

Can anyone else corroborate that? A lot of that sounds.... very wrong.

EDIT: That is, the part about spirits ONLY ever having astral sight.

[Reaver]

(don't have books ATM, running off memory)

IIRC, spirits with the materialization power can assume a physical form but are still made entirely of mana. It might be possible for them to 'read' a terminal while materialized, but a VR/AR display would probably be beyond them simply cause you are talking about a digital format displayed on nothing. They are both a projected image. Dictated material could be heard of course. Remember, a spirit doesn't have muscles, nerves, neutrons, or anything else that resembles an anatomy of a person, they are an alien form of 'life' made of mystical energy (mana) and are barely understood even after almost 60 years of study.

It would be possible to ride a materialized spirit (if it allowed you to ride it!) due to the fact that once materialized it has mass and form (basically solid)  it would still need the strength to carry the weight however, so weaker spirits may not be able to do so.

[Thrass]

I honestly thought spirits that possessed a body would use their ears/eyes to perceive.
Spirits that possess vehicles and the like can use their sensors can't they?

[Reaver]

I honestly thought spirits that possessed a body would use their ears/eyes to perceive.
Spirits that possess vehicles and the like can use their sensors can't they?

Lots of conjecture on this.... Been several other posts/debates about it.

What they all agree in is: the 'vessel' must be prepared (be it a body, a car, a toaster) for the spirit to inhabit it. And the preparation must be done for all components of the 'vessel' (meaning a car, that is a collection of components, each must be prepared) this leads to an expensive process.

Basically, talk to your GM and see what he has to say on the matter, in the end it's up to him anyways

[Reaver]

I honestly thought spirits that possessed a body would use their ears/eyes to perceive.
Spirits that possess vehicles and the like can use their sensors can't they?

Ok, got my Street magic book out...

on Pgs 102-103 sidebar (the white on black text)

It talks about a pessessed SAAB (a car), whiel the spirit could drive the car, it could NOT operate the sensors or any other electronic devices. The spirit can only interact with and operate/move the MECHANICAL parts of the car.

Also under Pg 86, to enchant the car, you need 1 radical reagent per 10 kg of mass of the vessel (so, depending on the car, it's mass is somewhere between 1800  to 3200 kg, or 180 to 320 reagents at a cost of $200 to $40,000 EACH!) and you may have to enchant seperate parts of the car seperately, which means taking it apart, enchanting, and then reassembling.

so, once again I say, "Talk to your GM" it's all up to him in the end!


**REASON FOR EDIT: actually took a second to look up how much cars weigh... http://cars.lovetoknow.com/How_Much_Does_a_Car_Weigh

[Thrass]

ah I was totally misremembering that... thank you Reaver

[raggedhalo]

However, it does call into question why Spirits of Man (pg. 303, SR4A) have Low Light and Thermographic Vision...

[Lethe]

We probably have to assume, those enhanced senses are astral versions. Especially since those powers are not limited to their materialized form.

[Mirikon]

Except that there's no such thing as astral forms with heat, and no astral 'light' to be low. This would seem to go against the whole 'spirits can only see with astral perception' argument.

[Lethe]

True, but still spirits don't have eyes, so the ability to "see" must be at least paranormal.