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Stealing a SIN; is it possible?

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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #45 on: <04-18-12/0626:01> »
Lose your SIN in the crash and then LIE.  You don't want people to know that the SIN is well and truly gone, just misplaced.  So lie and tell people it was stolen and you're trying to get it back.  If people know you have no SIN, you're basically an animal in Seattle.  But if they think you're a victim of identity theft, you're a person.

Moral Wiz

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« Reply #46 on: <04-18-12/0641:35> »
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That was addressed way back in the thread, MW. They keep records of the pre-change genetic profile as well, if only so that gene-tweaks (on-the-books ones like you're talking about, at least) can't be used to avoid DNA evidence linking someone to a crime. There's also recovery time, and plastic surgery leaves marks.

:) Marks that are in the main only detectable by in depth examination. Simple easy to see marks aren't really the thing for celebrities, and a doctor good enough to opperate on a NMS is good enough not to leave marks that're easily visible..

As to the records issue I'm not sure... if two people have the same DNA, you can't spot the genetweaking, and one has a SIN, who will you believe? (as to recovery time, there're a few ways around that, some of which I'll go into below.

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But funny thing is, that facebook profile of yours doesn't mention anything about that month you spent in a clinic... isn't that odd? And of course, the next time you pass an S-K or Ares border or security checkpoint, they might want to do some additional controls and have their own medical team do some 'minor examinations'. All for your own and public safety, of course. "Don't like it? Tough. Maybe next time you'll have your work done at one of our clinics instead, huh?"

:) Alt scenario then; what if you got that info in advance, did the surgery beforehand to make the 'new' holder look like the original, and simply swapped the SIN? That's not detectable without a damn good medical scan, performed at the word of a SINless. And just because you're SINless doesn't mean you're a tramp. You could be a criminal with genetweaking trying to make trouble for an upstanding citizen! ;)

Another idea with the first; claim that you're beginning surgery and recovery with the theft. Again, the authorities have to actively investigate to catch you, and do it on the word of someone without a SIN, and on what more or less amounts to their word.

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Lose your SIN in the crash and then LIE.  You don't want people to know that the SIN is well and truly gone, just misplaced.  So lie and tell people it was stolen and you're trying to get it back.  If people know you have no SIN, you're basically an animal in Seattle.  But if they think you're a victim of identity theft, you're a person.

Hmm... perhaps, but for a NMS? They're animals anyway. ;) Those Frogs might give 'em SINs, but we don't do that stupid drek here! I ware my Naga skin boots and like 'em.

(Or wait, is that the CAS?)

Reaver

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« Reply #47 on: <04-18-12/1433:18> »
Does make you wonder, huh?

Would the cops even listen to a SINless Pixie? Or would they call animal services?
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Or would they slap a restraint on it and then try to sell it to an exotic animal dealer??
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Moral Wiz

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« Reply #48 on: <04-18-12/1443:50> »
Do the cops even have a public office? Reading the Seattle book, it's noted that if you have problems, you should contact Knight Errant customer services. Which makes some sense. If you can just call them or make contracts with them online, why do they need an office that people can visit? That just means they have to interact with the public. ;) There's PANICBUTTON!, but that's generally done from either a commlink or a public terminal (and how those work, I'm still unsure on... won't they require money?)

Reaver

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« Reply #49 on: <04-18-12/1533:42> »
Do the cops even have a public office? Reading the Seattle book, it's noted that if you have problems, you should contact Knight Errant customer services. Which makes some sense. If you can just call them or make contracts with them online, why do they need an office that people can visit? That just means they have to interact with the public. ;) There's PANICBUTTON!, but that's generally done from either a commlink or a public terminal (and how those work, I'm still unsure on... won't they require money?)

They are paid for by the city in the city's contract. That contract spells out alot of things in flowery legalize suchs as "minamum response times" "acceptable loss to net gains ratio", "acceptable criminal activity levels", "expected conviction and harm reduction ratios". And what not...

Basically, the city says: we want <XyZ> response times to crimes in <ABC> areas, we want a ratio of 1:X crimes per capita, we expect a XX% reduction in <ZZZ> crimes and a conviction rate of <D>%.
KE crunches the numbers factoring in all it's expected costs, expected spin off capital gains, then factors in a profit margin and fires back with a bid...
The city and KE dance around the bagaining table till the get all the numbers they are happy with and sign a contract.

So your PANICBUTTON! In an AAA neighborhood might summon a squad car in under 2 minutes. (cause that is what their contract says) In a B 'hood that might be a drone in 5 minutes. And in a Z zone? The button was stripped for salable parts.

And this is why not having a SIN sucks. If you don't have a SIN you are legally not a resident of the city. If you are not a resident, you don't pay city taxes. No taxes paid, you havn't paid KE (through the city), thus they have no real obligation to help you, beyond the basic human rights, if you get into trouble!

For exotic sapients (who the UCAS doesn't recgognize) they have NO real obligation at all! (not a 'person' remember?) unless a national embassy contacts them on the citizens behalf ahead of time!
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #50 on: <04-18-12/1536:56> »
And this is why not having a SIN sucks. If you don't have a SIN you are legally not a resident of the city. If you are not a resident, you don't pay city taxes. No taxes paid, you havn't paid KE (through the city), thus they have no real obligation to help you, beyond the basic human rights, if you get into trouble!

Are you even human to them without a SIN?
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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #51 on: <04-18-12/1610:03> »
Do the cops even have a public office?
Yes they have precinct houses.  The one on the Tacoma Docks got taken over from Lone Star.  That is just one example.  There are many unlisted ones.  Police stations are there for the same reason you have a cop walking the beat, cars patrolling and cops on horseback.  If a cop is SEEN in the area, criminals tend to move on to safer pastures.  People also feel safer is they know a cop is nearby.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #52 on: <04-18-12/1615:23> »
Do the cops even have a public office?
Yes they have precinct houses.  The one on the Tacoma Docks got taken over from Lone Star.  That is just one example.  There are many unlisted ones.  Police stations are there for the same reason you have a cop walking the beat, cars patrolling and cops on horseback.  If a cop is SEEN in the area, criminals tend to move on to safer pastures.  People also feel safer is they know a cop is nearby.

Didn't stop me in the Genesis video game. I'd go in and out of practically every corp office (including the cops) with impunity because they couldn't stop me.  ::)
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Reaver

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« Reply #53 on: <04-18-12/1734:36> »
And this is why not having a SIN sucks. If you don't have a SIN you are legally not a resident of the city. If you are not a resident, you don't pay city taxes. No taxes paid, you havn't paid KE (through the city), thus they have no real obligation to help you, beyond the basic human rights, if you get into trouble!

Are you even human to them without a SIN?

Yes and no... You are still covered by the basic 'naturalized human rights' as set out in the UCAS charter. But that is IT!  So a cop coming around a corner, seeing some punks beating up a SINless is obligated to stop it. But he may not proceed with actually laying charges (depends on his mood). However, he probably wouldn't take a statement or fill out reports on anything to do with the SINless. SINless crime victims would be given the least amount of time/officers/resources to solve what happened until it became in the corp's best interest to allocate more (ie the Mayan cutter)
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Reaver

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« Reply #54 on: <04-18-12/1745:38> »
The better question is: "what happens to a non-recognized sapient who calls attention to themselves without a SIN?"

That would depend on the sapient and the nation I would think. In Quebec, a shape changer calling LS would probably get shot since Quebec has bounties of upwards $25k on shapies... (nice way to make some extra cash AND do his job at the same time)

For your pixie in Seattle, probably animal services would be called to collect a stray paracritter... Until she/she/(it?) proved dangerous... Then it would be 'shoot on sight' after all you don't talk a rabid dog into coming along... They just shoot it.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.