[jundle]

Is input into a characters AR done via pure thought, or by hand gestures?

I assume communication via AR is either spoken verbally or written via hand (maybe to an "ethereal" AR keyboard).  And other AR interactions I assume are all done with hand or verbal inputs.

Does it state anywhere in the core rule book if input directly from thought is used to do AR input?

[Ajax]

It depends entirely on what input device(s) you are using. AR Gloves or an AR Wristboard allows for "tactile" input, a microphone or subvocal mic will allow for verbal input, trodes or a Direct Neural Interface (via cyberware or technomancer mojo) will give mental control. You can also go all neo-luddite and use a keyboard, maybe even with real buttons!   

[tzizimine]

Input into AR is only pure thought if you have something that will handle Direct Neural Input (DNI). The most basic solution is a simrig (as a opposed to just trodes which is DNI output only). The downside of which is that you have to wear both simrigs and trodes on your head, which makes it a easy thing to look for when patting someone down. The other common solution is a datajack or implanted commlink which will give DNI and the port can be implanted just about anywhere (please no belly button jacks... it's just tacky).


Non-DNI input to AR is by default audio to the commlink, but given that gets noisy and inconvenient, a lot of people accessorize. Subvocal microphones are common. Something with Image Link (i.e. cybereyes which have them by default or glasses/goggles/contacts with Image Link modification) and Earbuds lets you see and hear the AR output. AR gloves is common for AR input (that's the virtual keyboard you are thinking of) plus some tactile feedback (sense of touch).

[beowulf_of_wa]

suddenly realized, a world of magic and techies, 90% of the population sits on the bus staring of into the distance waving and tapping in the air at nothing visible to the person next to them. add in deaf and sign language users and then realize just how stupid EVERYONE looks to them.

[ArkangelWinter]

suddenly realized, a world of magic and techies, 90% of the population sits on the bus staring of into the distance waving and tapping in the air at nothing visible to the person next to them. add in deaf and sign language users and then realize just how stupid EVERYONE looks to them.

I was actually talking to a friend once who pointed out that one day, the people not waving their hands at invisible objects will be the ones we think look silly.

[Lethe]

The most basic solution is a simrig (as a opposed to just trodes which is DNI output only). The downside of which is that you have to wear both simrigs and trodes on your head, which makes it a easy thing to look for when patting someone down.

Trodes are input and output:

This net/headband of electrodes and ultrasound emitters enables the wearer to experience simsense and are used with a sim module.

Simrigs include trodes, so you don't need to wear both.

An advanced version of the trode net, the simrig records simsense experience data (both physical and emotive) from the wearer. Simrigs incorporate a sim module.

[tzizimine]

@Lethe,


Yes, Simrigs include trodes, to allow for input and output. No contest there.


However, it has been my understanding that regular trodes allow one to experience, not interact with or record back to simsense, hence there is only output, not input. Otherwise, what would be the point of having different costs for trodes vs. Simrigs?

[Ajax]

Is it that complicated? A Simrig (¥1000) can do the job of a set of trodes (¥50). But a set of trodes will not do everything that a simrig does. My $700 laptop can handle any job I give my accountant type calculator ($50) which can do any job I would give the cheapo pocket calculator I keep in my glove box (free giveaway with purchase of a few hundred business cards)...

[Lethe]

However, it has been my understanding that regular trodes allow one to experience, not interact with or record back to simsense, hence there is only output, not input. Otherwise, what would be the point of having different costs for trodes vs. Simrigs?

Simrigs can record and include a sim module.
Even today you can use trodes for computer input. Would be strange if they would develop an output method for them in future and forget about the most easy part...

[Mirikon]

Trodes and a sim module allow you to see and experience simsense. Otherwise, you would be confined to AR or would need cyberware, like a datajack (not counting TMs, for now). A simrig combines the functionality of trodes and a sim module, but also allows acts as a recorder, allowing you to capture not just your natural (and augmented) senses, but emotional content as well, and play it back at a later date.

And trodes in 2070 are like a Bluetooth today, except less noticable. Will someone searching you find it? Certainly. Will they think it is odd, compared to the hundreds of millions of people in the world who have them? Not so much, unless they are a real designer brand.

[tzizimine]

However, it has been my understanding that regular trodes allow one to experience, not interact with or record back to simsense, hence there is only output, not input. Otherwise, what would be the point of having different costs for trodes vs. Simrigs?

Simrigs can record and include a sim module.
Even today you can use trodes for computer input. Would be strange if they would develop an output method for them in future and forget about the most easy part...

Oh I agree that input to the commlink should be easier than output from it. I'm just saying that if there is such as huge price difference, what's the benefit between the two? When/Where can a simrig help you that trodes cannot? Obviously recording simsemse vs. playing it back, but a 200% markup for the use a record button? There's gotta be more than that...


Unless this is another example of how the writing was not completely thought through...

[Ajax]

Oh I agree that input to the commlink should be easier than output from it. I'm just saying that if there is such as huge price difference, what's the benefit between the two? When/Where can a simrig help you that trodes cannot? Obviously recording simsemse vs. playing it back, but a 200% markup for the use a record button? There's gotta be more than that...

Purely off the top of my head, the first major difference that comes to mind if Tactical AR Software.  95% of the Shadowrun world won't be using Tacsofts, but military combat units, elite security forces, and shadowrunners can get incredible mileage out of Tacsofts if everyone in the unit is sporting a simrig.

For the average sarariman or sprawl dweller, a simrig isn't going to be of much use... at least, not enough use to justify carrying one around daily.  These days, it seems just about everyone has a camera built into their phone, and plenty of people carry a pocket-sized digital camera with them everywhere too... but only a few dedicated hobbyists will own a professional grade, high-end camera.  Nevertheless, their common enough that it won't attract too much attention if you walk around Central Park with a telephoto lens, tripod, and other such pro-am equipment.  I see a simrig in Shadowrun as the sort of pro-am / dedicated hobbyist gear.  Not commonplace, but not too unusual.

[Mirikon]

Actually, I can see a big use for them in anyone hooked up to the P2.0 network.

[Tagz]

However, it has been my understanding that regular trodes allow one to experience, not interact with or record back to simsense, hence there is only output, not input. Otherwise, what would be the point of having different costs for trodes vs. Simrigs?

Simrigs can record and include a sim module.
Even today you can use trodes for computer input. Would be strange if they would develop an output method for them in future and forget about the most easy part...

Oh I agree that input to the commlink should be easier than output from it. I'm just saying that if there is such as huge price difference, what's the benefit between the two? When/Where can a simrig help you that trodes cannot? Obviously recording simsemse vs. playing it back, but a 200% markup for the use a record button? There's gotta be more than that...


Unless this is another example of how the writing was not completely thought through...

I think it is another example of writing not entirely thought through.

If you read up on trodes in the SR4 and SR4A books, it says they allow a user to experience AR and Simsense.  It never mentions interacting with it.  One might infer they allowed DNI from the descriptions of know and linguasofts saying it requires either a datajack or sim module and trodes, but that's still a case of putting info into the brain that the brain then accesses, not the brain accessing a device.  I always took it to mean that trodes would allow a person to see AR or VR but not give them DNI, so they would need gloves, keyboard, etc to actually interact.

Now along comes Unwired.  THERE we have mention for the first time that trodes give full DNI.  My guess is that the writers of Unwired did it to either intentionally to make the matrix more accessable to everyone, or they just always figured trodes gave DNI from the get go.  All that's fine and good as it doesn't break the game too much to allow trodes to give DNI, but the price never changed on trodes to reflect their upgrade.  Given they cost no essence and do exactly the same thing as a Datajack for less, they became the obvious choice to use.  This change also made a lot of other accessories fairly pointless, such as AR Gloves, eye/earwear just for AR, Subvocal Microphone, and a few more I'm sure.  All those are pointless when you have DNI, and trodes cost the same or less then any single one of those items.

Personally, I'm playing the idea of using a house rule to return them to pre-Unwired use.  I think true DNI should be something thats a bit harder to have then just having a few stickers on your head or glued inside your hat.  It would also gives back some meaning to many gear items.