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The current situation with Dragons

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Longshot23

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« Reply #180 on: <05-13-12/1003:35> »
Somewhere in the mass of SR lore, there was a distinction made between/about blood magic:  that there is blood magic which can be permissible if used in moderation (the dragons have gone this route), and there is death blood magic which is never permissible because the consequences are so bloody dire.  It was alleged that the Azzies made the use of death blood magic a central part of their policies in the Sixth World.

Further, in the Aztlan s/b the magic used to fire up and fuel the Great Ghost Dance was cited as the polar philosophical opposite of the Azzie-sponsored blood magic.


Mirikon

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« Reply #181 on: <05-13-12/1025:16> »
It is all the same, just some is worse than others. 'Life magic' is blood magic where the caster uses himself, or willing (not tricked/coerced) sacrifices to enhance his power. This form of blood magic is typically all right with dragons, and most of the IEs. The second type is 'Death magic', where you steal the power from an unwilling (tricked, coerced, helpless) sacrifice. That is what the Azzies do, and is how you make blood spirits, among other nastiness.

They both increase background counts (unless you know the next level secrets), and rituals using either kind help the Horrors get here quicker, which is why Harlequin had to drag some poor schmucks through the metaplanes to find Shantaya's Voice, and why Big D had to blow himself off to power the Dragonheart and smash the bridge.
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CanRay

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« Reply #182 on: <05-13-12/1127:25> »
Thus why the Great Ghost Dance was bad, despite being willing participants.
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raggedhalo

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« Reply #183 on: <05-14-12/0718:57> »
My understanding is that all Shadowrun magic is Earthdawn "blood magic" - because it causes Drain.  However, Shadowrun "blood magic" is Earthdawn "death magic," which is seriously bad juju.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #184 on: <05-14-12/0746:08> »
Then you're understanding wrong. Earthdawn blood magic (both life and death) was the same as blood magic in Shadowrun. The reason drain is so tough on spellcasters is because we are just at the infancy of the Sixth World. Remember, Earthdawn took place just after the Scourge, when the mana levels were just past their peak.
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Longshot23

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« Reply #185 on: <05-14-12/0810:05> »
Okay, further to my earlier post about dragons, I thought i'd list the 6W active dragons (great and otherwise). More or less looking for how people think the dragon divide is going to go.

Aden
Celedyr
Ghostwalker
Hestaby
Hualpa
Lofwyr
Lung
Masaru
Rhonabwy
Ryumyo
Sea Dragon
Alamais
Arleesh
Calozerca
Damon
Eliohann
Feuerschwinge
Henequen
Kaltenstein
Mujaji
Nebelherr
Perianwyr
Pobre
Schwartzkopf
Sirrurg
Tjurjunga
Zacaultipan
Booryazmei

Any others I've missed?  And don't say the Big D . . .


Stry

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« Reply #186 on: <05-14-12/1018:54> »
Since there are probably two known Toxic shaman dragons(Pobre, and Lofwyr's rival in SOX), are there any Insect Shaman dragons?

I think all dragons probably practice blood magic but only use it as a last resort.

The word shaman may not be correct when dealing with dragons, because dragons do not follow a path like metamuhans do.   Which is why we do not hear about hermetic dragons or other traditions type dragons.   Toxic or corrupt dragon may be a better label, although I believe if their land is cleansed they may they may lose their toxicness.

Because dragons are not shaman there are probably not any insect shaman dragons, but I believe some dragons, especially Ghostwalker, would know how to summon insect spirits, but are wise enough to know not to do so. 

Mirikon

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« Reply #187 on: <05-14-12/1044:30> »
Aden - Firmly in Hestaby's camp, to spite Lofwyr
Celedyr - Likely in Hestaby's camp, thanks to her holding his eggs.
Ghostwalker - Unknown. I don't see him joining forces with Lofwyr, but he doesn't seem likely to join in Hestaby's group, either.
Hestaby - Duh.
Hualpa - Probably join with Hestaby, if only because Lofwyr is such a big polluter.
Lofwyr - Duh
Lung - Hestaby. He's one of the more cool-headed dragons, and while the Eastern dragons are traditionalists, Lung is more about preserving balance, and a war between dragons and metahumans isn't what he wants.
Masaru - Likely will follow Hestaby and Lung.
Rhonabwy - Uncertain. May fall into Lofwyr's camp.
Ryumyo - Lofwyr, if only because Lung goes in Hestaby's camp.
Sea Dragon - Lofwyr, to spite Hestaby and Celedyr
Alamais - Tough call here. Initial reaction is to say Hestaby, to spite Lofwyr, but we all know how little regard Alamais has for metahumans.
Arleesh - Don't know enough about her to say.
Calozerca - Don't know enough to say.
Damon - My gut says Hestaby, because he enjoys living it up with metahumans.
Eliohann - Hestaby, especially since his boss, Celedyr, will be in that camp.
Feuerschwinge - Unknown. Too crazy with radiation to be predicted.
Henequen - Don't know enough to say.
Kaltenstein - Hestaby. Cleaning up the environment (and perhaps rescuing Feureschwinge) is a big goal for him.
Mujaji - Probably Hestaby. Again, environmentalism is important here, and Lofwyr is a major polluter.
Nebelherr - Don't know enough to say.
Perianwyr - Whatever side Ghostwalker comes down on.
Pobre - Too crazy to care.
Schwartzkopf - Hestaby. Schwartzkopf loves metahumans.
Sirrurg - His own. 'Nuff said.
Tjurjunga - Don't know enough to say.
Zacaultipan - Don't know enough to say.
Booryazmei - Don't know enough to say.
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Sichr

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« Reply #188 on: <05-14-12/1222:39> »
Then you're understanding wrong. Earthdawn blood magic (both life and death) was the same as blood magic in Shadowrun. The reason drain is so tough on spellcasters is because we are just at the infancy of the Sixth World. Remember, Earthdawn took place just after the Scourge, when the mana levels were just past their peak.

Well...IMO Drain was inherrited to Shadowrun Mages because in other case nobody would want to play cybersams :)

TheNarrator

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« Reply #189 on: <05-14-12/1718:21> »
My understanding is that all Shadowrun magic is Earthdawn "blood magic" - because it causes Drain.  However, Shadowrun "blood magic" is Earthdawn "death magic," which is seriously bad juju.

Lots of abilities in Earthdawn cost "Strain" (a point or more of temporary damage, essentially) to use. Not just spellcasting, but stuff like Parry and Riposte, too. It cost the adept in exhaustion, essentially. Luckily adepts could take quite a few points of damage before dropping, and it was pretty easy to heal it once combat was done. So it was fairly similar to Drain.

(SR mages are also tossing around raw magic, while ED mages used spell matrices to clean the mana, since the astral was so tainted in ED after the Scourge that casting raw magic pretty much meant Horrors would eat your soul. Think of a spell matrix like Filtering metamagic, I guess.)

Earthdawn also had Blood Magic, which caused a few points of permanent damage. Usually this was in the form of a magical item that needed to feed on your blood to be activated. You couldn't heal the damage until you removed the item. It actually wasn't all that uncommon, and wasn't considered unethical, since you only used your own life force.

Then there was the use of the life force of unwilling victims to power magic. The Therans did that en masse. Their massive stone airships were kept afloat by the life force of slaves, causing them to constantly be raiding for slaves or demanding them as tribute from conquered territories. The Therans were bad news, and Aztlan seems to be following in their footsteps. Assuming that there isn't an immortal Theran survivor secretly controlling Aztechnology....


Rhonabwy - Uncertain. May fall into Lofwyr's camp.

I seem to recall that Dragons of the Sixth World implied that Hestaby was the one raising the eggs that Rhonabwy fathered with the Sea Dragon. (And the Sea Dragon is pissed off about it.) If he trusts Hestaby enough to ask her to hatch his eggs, then he probably will side with her.

Plus, he's somewhat po-metahuman. He apologized and paid compensation for that rampage when he woke up, which... well, it's more than Lofwyr would probably do.

Alamais - Tough call here. Initial reaction is to say Hestaby, to spite Lofwyr, but we all know how little regard Alamais has for metahumans.

Back in the Earthdawn days, Alamais' "dragon supremacist" tendencies were considered second only to Sirrurg's. (Alamais just thought they should rule the younger races, while Sirrurg thought that they should scour human civilization from the earth with fire.) But on the other hand, he really hates Lofwyr. I can't overstate how much he hates Lofwyr. He's been carrying a grudge since the Second World. Of course, he also hates the immortal elves (they're his kids), and Hestaby is on the Tir's Council of Princes. So... yeah, tough call.

The other thing about Alamais, however, was that he tends to spend all his time off on his own, sulking and plotting, rather than get involved. He didn't even bother to show up for the Theran War, and that was an "all dragons on deck" moment. So he might just sit this one out and wait for an opportunity to backstab a weakened survivor.

Arleesh - Don't know enough about her to say.

All I really know about her is that she's superfocused on her mission to track down imp-infected (Horror Marked?) artifacts. She may just decide that she doesn't particularly care, so long as nobody causes any manaspikes or otherwise hastens the coming of the Horrors.


Ghostwalker - Unknown. I don't see him joining forces with Lofwyr, but he doesn't seem likely to join in Hestaby's group, either.

Is he back from his trip into the astral rift yet? If not, it's possible that he'll miss the whole thing.

The tricky thing with Ghostwalker is that he hates Aztlan, and Sirrurg's attacks on Aztlan are the trigger for all this.

Mirikon

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« Reply #190 on: <05-14-12/1901:06> »
Hazard Pay pretty much says that Ghostwalker is back, though it doesn't say where or how. I'm betting that comes out in Clutch of Dragons.
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Angelone

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« Reply #191 on: <05-14-12/1913:54> »
Lung and Ryumyo are being "courted" by Lofwyr both are very traditional dragons. I could see them putting their differences aside for this. I remember reading they joined up with Lof in one of the books. Masaru would join Loffy as well.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #192 on: <05-14-12/2024:24> »
Masaru will go where Lung goes.That's how his apprenticeship works. Beyond that, I know nothing.

Longshot23

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« Reply #193 on: <05-14-12/2211:02> »
Yay! Theorizing!

Angelone

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« Reply #194 on: <05-14-12/2322:20> »
It's fun for the whole family!
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