[CalibanX9]

Any advice for this character? I have the gear worked out on paper there's (15k nuyen left after the foci, etc).

This is more of a have fun character, but any tweaks or advice would be welcome.

Questions, Should I put influence to 4? Is quick healing (with heal spells + first aid) worth it? v.s. a mentor spirit or magician's/ speaker's way?

What would my dice pool look like for commanding voice (does kinesthics assist? glamour?)?


== Info ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf
Composure: 12
Judge Intentions: 14
Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 8
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 2
REA: 4
STR: 1
CHA: 7
INT: 4
LOG: 3
WIL: 5
EDG: 1
MAG: 5

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                8
IP:                        1
Astral Initiative:         8
Astral IP:                 3
Matrix Initiative:         4
Matrix IP:                 1
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         11

== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling            : 0                      Pool: 3
Animal Training            : 0                      Pool: 3
Arcana                     : 1                      Pool: 4
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 1
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Artisan                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Automatics                 : 0                      Pool: 1
Binding                    : 1                      Pool: 8
Blades                     : 0                      Pool: 1
Clubs                      : 0                      Pool: 1
Computer                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Con                        : 3                      Pool: 16
Counterspelling            : 4                      Pool: 7
Cybercombat                : 0                      Pool: 2
Data Search                : 0                      Pool: 2
Demolitions                : 0                      Pool: 2
Disguise                   : 0                      Pool: 3
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 2
Dodge                      : 0                      Pool: 3
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 1
Etiquette                  : 3                      Pool: 16
First Aid                  : 1                      Pool: 4
Forgery                    : 0                      Pool: 1
Gunnery                    : 0                      Pool: 1
Gymnastics                 : 0                      Pool: 1
Hacking                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Heavy Weapons              : 0                      Pool: 1
Infiltration               : 0                      Pool: 1
Instruction                : 0                      Pool: 6
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 6
Leadership                 : 3                      Pool: 16
Locksmith                  : 0                      Pool: 1
Longarms                   : 0                      Pool: 1
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 3
Negotiation                : 3                      Pool: 16
Palming                    : 0                      Pool: 1
Parachuting                : 0                      Pool: 2
Perception                 : 0                      Pool: 3
Pilot Ground Craft         : 0                      Pool: 3
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 3
Pistols                    : 0                      Pool: 1
Riding                     : 0                      Pool: 3
Ritual Spellcasting        : 1                      Pool: 8
Shadowing                  : 0                      Pool: 3
Spellcasting               : 6                      Pool: 14
Summoning                  : 1                      Pool: 8
Survival                   : 0                      Pool: 4
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 1
Tracking                   : 0                      Pool: 3
Unarmed Combat             : 0                      Pool: 1

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Contacts ==
Mr Johnson (3, 1)
Wizkid ganger (1, 1)

== Qualities ==
Bioluminescence
Celerity
Changeling (Class II SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Distinctive Style (5 pts)
Glamour
In Debt (30,000¥)
Low-Light Vision
Mystic Adept
Quick Healer
Restricted Gear (Rating 1)
Striking Skin Pigmentation

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Norse, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (12))
[Elemental] Aura (Manipulation) DV: (F÷2)+3
[Elemental] Cloud (Manipulation) DV: (F÷2)+5
Control Thoughts (Manipulation) DV: (F÷2)+2
Deflection (Manipulation)  DV: (F÷2)+1
Heal (Health)              DV: (Damage Value)-2
Increase [Attribute] (Health) DV: (F÷2)-2
Increase Reflexes (Health) DV: (F÷2)+2
Stunbolt (Combat)          DV: (F÷2)-1

== Powers ==
Commanding Voice
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Spellcasting) Rating: 1
Kinesics Rating: 3

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   DV: 1S   AP: -   RC: 0

== Gear ==
Power Focus (bonded) Rating 4
Sustaining Focus (Health) (bonded) Rating 3

[Glyph]

I would definitely consider getting a mentor spirit instead of quick healer.  Improved ability cannot be used for awakened skills - only combat, physical, social, and technical skills.

It's a GM call on what exactly can add to commanding voice.  A strict reading of the power limits it to Charisma plus leadership, so improved ability would help it, but not glamour or kinesics.  The trouble with a more liberal reading of the power is that, if you treat it like a normal leadership test, and add modifiers like glamour or kinesics, you should also apply a whopping amount of negative modifiers, since the character in question has no rank or authority whatsoever, and is often considered a hostile by the person they are attempting to command.

It's normally good to get Influence group up to 4, but you may want to wait.  Your character is spread pretty thin, so it might be better to improve it later.  Your current dice pool should still be plenty for most social encounters.

[UmaroVI]

Yes, Mentor Spirit > Quick Healing. In fact, quick healing should be somewhere off to the right of your screen in that comparison, because it is so dramatically much less good. In fact, essentially anything is better than Quick Healing with the exception of the shaky reading where Quick Healing helps Shifters/Infected regenerate faster.

Magician's Way would be alright but you cannot get it without dumping something better, and it's only alright because you're not getting Increase Reflexes.

Not having Influence 4 is terrible karma inefficiency. You know for sure you will want it; drop a few rating 1 skills like First Aid 1 to get it, then buy them with karma (if you're sure you really want them... rolling 10 vs. 9 dice with first aid is rather meh, leave it to someone who is actually good at that IMO since only one first aid check counts. Plus you can magically heal people in emergencies).

I am of the opinion that CV tells you to make a Leadership+Charisma test, so things that add to Leadership tests (including Kinesics and Glamour) apply. Apparently not everyone agrees; I would just ask your GM, but I have never seen it run differently.

You have to pick Elements and Attributes for those spells. A few questions:

Who do you plan to Element Aura? It is only helpful for melee characters. Is there one in your group?

I am hoping your Increase Attribute spell is Charisma, in which case you are fine there.

Element Cloud is generally only worth it if you are planning on specializing in Manipulation, and by Element Cloud I mean Sonic Cloud. Are you planning to?

As mentioned, Improved Ability: Spellcasting does not work. I would take Leadership instead to work with Commanding Voice.

For karma efficiency reasons, I would consider dropping more of your rating 1 skills, buying 4 more spells (some good spells that fit your theme and would help you: Mind Probe, Levitate, Physical Mask,  Improved Invisibility), and buying the skills later, since skills at rating 1 or 2 have a 1:1 karma:bp ratio, but spells have 5:3.

[UmaroVI]

Also, you might want to ask your GM about how Heightened Concentration from Digital Grimoire works. It is either the best thing ever for mystic adepts, a good power that's worth having 1 more PP for, or utter crap that nobody should ever even think about taking depending on how you rule it works.

[CalibanX9]

Thanks for the feedback.
Am I reading something wrong with quick healer?

"Quick Healer
Cost: 10 BP
A Quick Healer recovers from damage more quickly than other
characters. The character receives a +2 dice pool modifier to all
Healing Tests made on/for/by him, including magical healing."

SR4Ap91

I didn't think this was anything special, but my GM told me that I'd get plus two die on any healing tests I made on others, so I'd get first aid + medkit  rating +2 + Log, and spellcasting + magic + power focus +2 on casting heal on others. Plus receiving FA+2 from others. If that's correct then it seems almost worth it to me.

We have two melee in our group, so blast aura seems useful to me.

I am planning on specializing in manipulation spells and if I pick up a mentor it would probably firebringer (another +2), although that is a weird one for translating into Norse traditions. Anyone have an idea on that? I took a class on old norse religion in college, and I still can't really come up with a firebringer archetype. Closest would be an aspect of Loki or of Odin.

I've been wavering on sound cloud v.s. blast cloud, I've never played with either before. Why is sound so much better?

increase attribute is CHA. Is that capped by my natural augmented maximum?

Thanks for the feedback on improved ability. I forgot about that.

Walk me and my GM through the readings of Heightened concentration, please. Would the best be dropping a dose of psyche and being able to sustain five spells with no penalty? The ok, being able to ignore a -1 to -3 modifier from a single source and the poor being, what? Being able to sustain just one spell indefinitely with no modifier is pretty damn powerful all alone. Is there disagreement on what magic attribute is used (5,3, 2, etc)?

Thanks a lot.

[Glyph]

The quick healer quality is so clumsily written that, yes, it could be read that way, unless you logically look at the first sentence, which tells what the actual intent of the quality is.  But hey, if your GM is reading it that way, then it actually is a decent quality, at least if you plan on having healing be one of your secondary specialties.

Increase Attribute is affected by the augmented maximum, which refers to "those augmented by cyberware, bioware, adept powers, and magic".

I think that most figures from mythology could be more than one mentor spirit, depending on what perspective you look at them from, but it would be hard to shoehorn either Odin or Loki into the Firebringer mentor spirit.  Loki is a god of fire, but he is definitely not the helpful sort - he would be better suited as either trickster or adversary (the latter tradition can give you a bonus to manipulation spells, though).  Odin is slightly more plausible.  He isn't very altruistic, but trading in an eye for wisdom dovetails with Firebringer's role of bringing knowledge to humanity.

[kirk]

The quick healer quality is so clumsily written that, yes, it could be read that way, unless you logically look at the first sentence, which tells what the actual intent of the quality is.  But hey, if your GM is reading it that way, then it actually is a decent quality, at least if you plan on having healing be one of your secondary specialties.

(snip)

And I would have said: The quick healer quality is so clumsily written that some people will get confused by the first sentence, while the second sentence gives you that actual operation.

Which means we both agree it's poorly written.

[bdyer]

Any advice for this character? I have the gear worked out on paper there's (15k nuyen left after the foci, etc).

This is more of a have fun character, but any tweaks or advice would be welcome.

Questions, Should I put influence to 4? Is quick healing (with heal spells + first aid) worth it? v.s. a mentor spirit or magician's/ speaker's way?

What would my dice pool look like for commanding voice (does kinesthics assist? glamour?)?


== Info ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf
Composure: 12
Judge Intentions: 14
Lift/Carry: 4 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 8
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 2
REA: 4
STR: 1
CHA: 7
INT: 4
LOG: 3
WIL: 5
EDG: 1  (I love edge, it can save you out of tight sit)
MAG: 5

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                8
IP:                        1
Astral Initiative:         8
Astral IP:                 3
Matrix Initiative:         4
Matrix IP:                 1
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         11

== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling            : 0                      Pool: 3
Animal Training            : 0                      Pool: 3
Arcana                     : 1                      Pool: 4
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 1
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Artisan                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Automatics                 : 0                      Pool: 1
Binding                    : 1                      Pool: 8
Blades                     : 0                      Pool: 1
Clubs                      : 0                      Pool: 1
Computer                   : 0                      Pool: 2

Grab the influence group and save some BP.

Con                        : 3                      Pool: 16
Etiquette                  : 3                      Pool: 16
Leadership                 : 3                      Pool: 16
Negotiation                : 3                      Pool: 16

Just a note:  you have magic 5 and 2 points are going into power points which means the highest force spell you can cast is a lvl 3 which means stunbolts abolsulte max dmg is 3+3(max hits due to force 3) if totally unresisted.    it might be worth it to look into other ways to deal dmg rather than direct combat spells

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Norse, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (12))
[Elemental] Aura (Manipulation) DV: (F÷2)+3
[Elemental] Cloud (Manipulation) DV: (F÷2)+5
Control Thoughts (Manipulation) DV: (F÷2)+2
Deflection (Manipulation)  DV: (F÷2)+1
Heal (Health)              DV: (Damage Value)-2
Increase [Attribute] (Health) DV: (F÷2)-2
Increase Reflexes (Health) DV: (F÷2)+2
Stunbolt (Combat)          DV: (F÷2)-1

== Powers ==
Commanding Voice
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Spellcasting) Rating: 1
Kinesics Rating: 3

[CalibanX9]

The quick healer quality is so clumsily written that, yes, it could be read that way, unless you logically look at the first sentence, which tells what the actual intent of the quality is.  But hey, if your GM is reading it that way, then it actually is a decent quality, at least if you plan on having healing be one of your secondary specialties.

(snip)

And I would have said: The quick healer quality is so clumsily written that some people will get confused by the first sentence, while the second sentence gives you that actual operation.

Which means we both agree it's poorly written.

Well said, and that interpretation would justify it's 10 bp cost.

[UmaroVI]

Quick Healer is then a reasonable quality, but not better than Mentor Spirit. I would still take Mentor Spirit. I don't think there's anything you can reasonably drop to jam in Quick Healer.

Sound Cloud is far better. The reason is that the cloud spells do Suppressive Fire which is going to do Force DV. If you cast at, say, Force 5, then Blast Cloud will do 5 DV, resisted by body+ 1/2 impact. That's probably going to do like 2 stun. Whee. Sound Cloud will do 5 DV resisted by only Body... and anyone who takes more boxes than their Willpower is nauseated. Doing small amounts of Sonic damage is useful; doing small amounts of Blast damage, not so much.

HC can be read in two different ways on two different aspects:

1. Do you combine penalties for sustaining spells into one big penalty? Is 2 spells one -4 penalty, or two -2 penalties?

2. Do you take one complex action, set your HC to a single thing (like "Sustaining Penalties"), and then roll out? Or do you have to take one complex action, then immediately perform the task, then you have to take a new complex action for each new task? So, like "no sustaining penalties on this next spell I cast" "cast spell" "no sustaining penalties on this shot I am about to take" "take shot."

2 determines whether the power is total crap or not. If it's the former interpretation, 1 determines whether it is good or awesome. The idea is of course that you use it to keep a bunch of spells sustained, or at least 1 in any case. It's better than a sustaining focus because the max force is uncapped.

Re: Firebringer, I think Firebringer should be a dvergar; probably Brokkr. Brokkr is associated with crafting (he and his brother Eitri, who should probably be Artificer, made a bunch of the famous things the gods uses, like Gungnir and Mjollnir). Brokkr is the one who works the bellows, whereas Eitri does the crafting (so it makes sense that Brokkr is Firebringer, and Eitri is Artificer). He nearly gets in trouble by betting against Loki which fits the "plans don't always work out" aspect of Firebringer. It's not perfect, because I don't think the dwarves were much for actually sharing their knowledge, but it's decent and certainly better than Loki or Odin.

[CalibanX9]

Quick Healer is then a reasonable quality, but not better than Mentor Spirit. I would still take Mentor Spirit. I don't think there's anything you can reasonably drop to jam in Quick Healer.

Agreed, thanks for the feedback.

Sound Cloud is far better. The reason is that the cloud spells do Suppressive Fire which is going to do Force DV. If you cast at, say, Force 5, then Blast Cloud will do 5 DV, resisted by body+ 1/2 impact. That's probably going to do like 2 stun. Whee. Sound Cloud will do 5 DV resisted by only Body... and anyone who takes more boxes than their Willpower is nauseated. Doing small amounts of Sonic damage is useful; doing small amounts of Blast damage, not so much.

Cool, you definitely sold me on sound cloud and blast aura. Although once I have a mage with anchoring, I'm going to start selling anchored bullets/ arrows like a mofo.

HC can be read in two different ways on two different aspects:

1. Do you combine penalties for sustaining spells into one big penalty? Is 2 spells one -4 penalty, or two -2 penalties?

2. Do you take one complex action, set your HC to a single thing (like "Sustaining Penalties"), and then roll out? Or do you have to take one complex action, then immediately perform the task, then you have to take a new complex action for each new task? So, like "no sustaining penalties on this next spell I cast" "cast spell" "no sustaining penalties on this shot I am about to take" "take shot."

2 determines whether the power is total crap or not. If it's the former interpretation, 1 determines whether it is good or awesome. The idea is of course that you use it to keep a bunch of spells sustained, or at least 1 in any case. It's better than a sustaining focus because the max force is uncapped.

Yep, I definitely agree that if it is 2, it is suck. If not, awesome. And original sustaining spell examples make a good case for the lose interpretation of 1, "if you are sustaining one spell you incur a -2 penalty, two a -4, and so on."

Re: Firebringer, I think Firebringer should be a dvergar; probably Brokkr. Brokkr is associated with crafting (he and his brother Eitri, who should probably be Artificer, made a bunch of the famous things the gods uses, like Gungnir and Mjollnir). Brokkr is the one who works the bellows, whereas Eitri does the crafting (so it makes sense that Brokkr is Firebringer, and Eitri is Artificer). He nearly gets in trouble by betting against Loki which fits the "plans don't always work out" aspect of Firebringer. It's not perfect, because I don't think the dwarves were much for actually sharing their knowledge, but it's decent and certainly better than Loki or Odin.

The fact that you pulled this out is so damn awesome, it makes you my all-time hero on these boards. The class I took was all about reading the sagas in Icelandic, and not much about in depth nordic mythology, so we really only had a cursory introduction to more obscure (e.g. not comic book) introductions to the myths.

I ended up going with Loki as an adversary archtype, although he kind of falls somewhere in-between adversary and trickster. I may end up writing my own description for him. "+2 manipulation, +2 illusion, must overcome a wil + chr (3) test whenever placed in a position of trust or responsibility to not frag over all other runners and run, laughing manically, into the sunset."