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Tir Tairngire

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Longshot23

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« Reply #30 on: <03-10-12/0502:16> »
Are your ideas going to see print? for the wider audience?

Critias

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« Reply #31 on: <03-10-12/1121:16> »
Are your ideas going to see print? for the wider audience?
As always, the answer is "some of them."  ;)  For the Tir in particular, I think it's safe to say "more than most," yes.

Aelavel

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« Reply #32 on: <04-06-12/0152:46> »
I'd love to know about the Border Patrol, & Military. Some of us really, REALLY hate politics  ;)

Crimsondude

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« Reply #33 on: <04-06-12/0200:13> »
In the Tír (and the Sioux Nation and Russia, among others) the Peace Force is so intrinsic to the fabric of the country that it is itself political.
« Last Edit: <04-06-12/0201:57> by James Meiers »

Aelavel

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« Reply #34 on: <04-06-12/0259:01> »
Well, I was hoping to know about their structures, which military models they use, as well as their ranks, etc...

Mirikon

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« Reply #35 on: <04-06-12/0634:23> »
Your best bet would be to look in the Tir Tairngir sourcebook. That's the only source that talks about the Peace Forces, IIRC. However, to be clear, the cop you see on the street, the soldier on the border, and that Ghost who just slipped a knife between your ribs are all part of the Peace Forces. They're not just interconnected, they're the same group. Now there will be rivalries, of course, just as there are rivalries in the US army between Green Berets, Paratroopers, Armored Cavalry, and Artillerymen, but they are all the same organization.

And yes, that means they do have a great deal of clout.
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shrike

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« Reply #36 on: <04-06-12/0722:18> »
Well, I was hoping to know about their structures, which military models they use, as well as their ranks, etc...
While it would be cool to have an order of battle for the TTPF, this is something I could Google about any real military and create myself. I would rather they use that word space for something more immediately useful.
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Digital_Viking

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« Reply #37 on: <04-06-12/0728:59> »
I'd love to know about the Border Patrol, & Military. Some of us really, REALLY hate politics  ;)

As Von Clauswitz said  "War is a mere continuation of politics by other means," - as Mr. Meiers points out, these units are so intrinsic to the fabric of the nation they must become political. We can't have one without the other  8)
"Which is better and which is worse,I wonder - To understand or to not understand?"
"Understanding is always worse. To not understand is to never carry the burden of responsibility. Understanding is pain. But anything less is unacceptable."

Critias

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« Reply #38 on: <04-06-12/1122:19> »
And the other way around, too, of course.  It's not merely that the military affects the politics, it's that the politics affects the military.  With high muckety-mucks leaving the Tir like mad and taking a bunch of Oathbound Paladin-types with them (either as loyal followers or chasing them like hunting hounds), do you really think organizations like the Tir Ghosts are still as x7hd76x7 dad&*$^4472 bdahare?  Of course they're idjkdh7{^#@@@@@@ <deleted by SySop, NDA demands patience>

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #39 on: <04-06-12/1321:41> »
I played with an elf whose father was a Tir Ghost.  Something in the backstory said that the Ghosts betrayed them and killed the mother and father and then the twins (boy and girl) had to flee to Seattle.  Cry me a river, emo boy.... Anyway, it turns out that this elf (and his sister) fought with the Wildcat fighting style, not Carromaleg (sp?) and that was taught to them by the now dead father.   So I was waiting for a chance for him to bring that up in character so that I could break the news that his father was a Sioux deep cover agent and that's why he knew Wildcat fighting style instead of the Tir Carromaleg.  And that's exactly the sort of thing the Sioux would have done when the Tir first broke away from the Salish.

ElfKrystal

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« Reply #40 on: <12-05-12/1824:24> »
I know this is an old thread, but I've got a copy of "Land of promise" And have a problem with it.


It so throughly changes so much of the society that was there before... Im trying to figure out how much of the society that was there in the printing of the original book "Tir Tairngire" is left. I cant even tell if the Social tiers have been completely disbanded or not.

I could tell the Star chamber has gone from joke, to a seriously powerful elected body.


Finally, Im curious how difficult would it be at this point for these 'reforms' to be reversed.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #41 on: <12-05-12/1857:01> »
This was literally the first and only word on the revolution for a while:
Quote from: System Failure
Days after the failed continental uprising, the runners are approached by a longstanding contact. He offers them good money to hide and protect a mysterious individual coming from Sinsereach lands. If the team accepts, they’ll be surprised to meet Lugh Surehand, now the former High Prince of Tir Tairngire. Surehand is on the run from Ghost Commandos sent by Tir’s new regime, but needs to finish some urgent busi- ness in Seattle before going into hiding.

That was in 2005, and that was it. It wasn't even a section or a subchapter in the final SR3 plotbook. It was one of three adventure seeds. That was supplemented by a whole half a column in Runner Havens explaining Zincan was in charge and somehow TT was now a democracy with a functioning Star Chamber. That was it until 2010 and the publication of Sixth World Almanac, which didn't have a whole lot more room to explain the mess the Tir was thrown into along with all of the other plots in the penultimate chapter of System Failure.

To say Tir Tairngire got screwed is an understatement, but Land of Promise was written to actually deal with the whole mess within the limits of having to describe everything else in the Tir in around 20,000 words. Luckily, the writer of LoP happens to be the biggest fan of the Tir in the world.
« Last Edit: <12-05-12/1903:39> by James Meiers »

Wakshaani

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« Reply #42 on: <12-05-12/1920:32> »
Yeah, Critias likes teh Tir even more than *I* do, and that's saying something. :D

What you have in the Tir is a sort of 'paper revolution', where a bunch of factions got together and threw the bums out... and then the winning factions broke apart. The end result is that the society didn't actually change so much as the actors on stage did.

Let me start over.

Since forever, teh Tir has had a grumbly underbelly of mostly non-Elves, who hated everything about the Tir. They were sold on a place where all metas would be equal and everyone would get a fair shake to one where ELves are more equal than everyone else and the whole system is rigged. Since Elves compose the majority by *quite* a lot, and are in power, they don't see any reason to change things, so the revolution never really gets going. Oh, sure, there's a movement, but it's about as toothless as when naked protestors show up at a press conference for the Hobbit to protest the mistreatment of animals. People shake their heads, go, "Oh, those guys," and go about their business.

This goes on for a while, until a few things in the Tir upper levels change. Economic turmoil kicks in, there's a bt of a power play behind the scenes, and the Rite of Ascension gets called off. All of a sudden, John Q Elf finds that he has no way to advance in society and that the economy's starting to shrivel up and die. He goes to the Star Council, and finds out that nothing actually happens there. Discontent spreads and suddenly people start manning the rebel movement, and by 'people' I mean 'Elves'. Now, it's turning into a real threat, so the Princes do what always used to work ... hardcore crackdowns. Unfortunately, in the modern age, this doesn't work out so well and sicontent lights up. Someone in the mix breaks out the old "Rebels of teh Spire' terminology which freaks the Princes out, who assume that someone from the past has come back to swat them, and they double-down on the crackdown. Things go badly, more and more people join teh rebellion, and soon, the government is toppled and teh bad eggs are all tossed out.

Huzzah! People power!

The older rebels, however, were the discontented underclass and assumed that everyone had signed on to their idea... tear down the system, rebuild a true democracy, and give everyone equal rights. The majority, however?  Oh, that wasn't the problem... society was fine as it was, it's just that the PRINCES had to go! Now the economy can get to work again, we can have proper Rites of Ascension once again, and all will be fine.

So, a real reform took place in the democratic Star Council as a lower house, where the people can actually have a voice, and new Princes were put in place. Society largely went back to just like it was ... Elves in power, the different levels of citizenry, who could own land, racism, and so on. Teh underclass were *pissed* at this betrayal, but had given up a lot of secrets by bringing the rebels into teh mix and found their leadership getting arrested and their old hiding places exposed. They had to throw out everything and start over from scratch since the entire movement was compromised.

In short, the Tir is much like it used to be, only with a friendlier face since the new Princes aren't as set in their ways as the old ones, and is more open since they learned that a closed society is a dead economy. They love tourist Nuyen and want people to visit ... but not stay.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #43 on: <12-05-12/1946:06> »
Oh, yeah. We should start by mentioning the Rinelle retcon way back in Shadows of North America that arose from the cancellation of the 2057 Rite of Progression.

The Rinelle was composed of literally every opposition group—from downtrodden non-elves to elves wanting their Rite to elven supremacists. This is a thing that somehow happened and lasted long enough to successfully depose the Council of Princes off the pages until Critias was able to finally start explaining it years after the fact.

But this is Critias' wheelhouse, so I'll just to defer to him from this point forward.

CanRay

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« Reply #44 on: <12-05-12/2113:05> »
This was literally the first and only word on the revolution for a while
Probably because the Revolution wasn't televised, so no one cared.  ;D
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