[Ultra Violence]

Sorry if this seems a daft question but I can't seem to find the answer in any of my books.

Can a dragon in metahuman form, communicate normally (speak) or are they still only able to use dragon speech?

Cheers guys n gals.

[John Shull]

Don't have the offical rule on that but Dragons are good communicators.  If they want to talk it out they will facilitate it some how.  Can't imagine Dragons choosing a form that limits them from a primary skill.

[James McMurray]

Nadja Daviar was Dunkelzahn's interpreter. I'm guessing he'd need her a lot less if he could just change shape and talk. I can't find any references though, and the only think I can find about Dunk's interview right now is in the SR4A main book and it doesn't say how he spoke with the reporter so that she could record it.

[Rockopolis]

Sign Language?

[Valashar]

Show a bit of thought, folks. Great dragons can assume a full metahuman form as an inherent power. Do you really think this form would lack basic parts? Yes, a dragon in metahuman form can talk normally. Plenty of examples of this, including Year of the Comet (Ghostwalker's chat with the Denver Council, transcript with him included starts on page 71).

[CanRay]

In Metahuman Form, Great Dragons can speak just like anyone else.  They don't like being in that form as:

One:  They're not as intimidating.

Two:  They're more vulnerable.  (Dunkie died in Human form after all.).

[James McMurray]

I'm sure Dunkhelzahn could have killed himself in whatever form he wanted.

[Ultra Violence]

I found the answer this afternoon whist reading "Never deal with a dragon" where Mr Drake talks just fine.

I always thought they should be able to but couldn't find the answer in any of the books. I was mostly looking in "Running Wild".

[FastJack]

The question is, of course, is their "Metahuman form" Manipulation magic or Illusion magic? If it's Manipulation (as I suspect), then they should be able to talk. If it's an extensive Illusion, then they would still be using their "Dragon Voice" (Voce del Drago?) and they'd still need a translator for electronic transcriptions.

[Ultra Violence]

Agree with you FJ.

The catalyst for this question is that every ref I can find to interviews with dragons or transcripts of dragons addressing other folk all seen to imply that it's done via another person ( a voice ). I have yet to locate any text that specifically identifies that a dragon in metahuman form actually speaks with it's own voice. I am new to SR and have all the 4th ED material but none of the earlier edition stuff (except the Archology:Shutdown which is awsome.) so there may be examples of this in the older material.

As a long time Earthdawn player I know that dragons can communicate via either dragon speech or vocally so I guess they just can't be arsed to vocalise any more.

Don't blame them really. Reading some of the novels, dragon speech is a superior way of communication IMO.

[James McMurray]

If it's an illusion then they can't walk through doors or ride in cars while in metahuman form because they're still too big. Dunkelzahn definitely rode in cars, so it has to be a shapechange power.

Also: "With a Complex Action, the dragon can assume a metahuman form of its choice, with physical abilities equal to those of a normal metahuman of the chosen race. Great dragons tend to be reluctant to assume metahuman form, because it leaves them somewhat vulnerable (compared to their powerful natural form)."

Illusions don't change your stats or make you more vulnerable.

[gerzel]

I think the interpreter thing is more down to pride than anything else.

Dragons see themselves as the top beings of the world and the draconic form is the form of greatest intelligence and gravitas thus they communicate important things as a dragon.

Also the "voices" do more than just interpret.   They often are more metahuman butlers and secretaries.  Arranging things for the dragon, dealing with other metahumans.

The other thing is it might not be a language barrier at all, but a thought barrier.  Dragons don't think like metahumans do.  Thus it would be better to filter ones announcements through a trusted interpreter before giving them out to the public at large.

[CanRay]

It's also good Trid to have the big ass dragon just sitting there, looking thoughtful while someone insanely charismatic replies to questions.

[FastJack]

If it's an illusion then they can't walk through doors or ride in cars while in metahuman form because they're still too big. Dunkelzahn definitely rode in cars, so it has to be a shapechange power.

Also: "With a Complex Action, the dragon can assume a metahuman form of its choice, with physical abilities equal to those of a normal metahuman of the chosen race. Great dragons tend to be reluctant to assume metahuman form, because it leaves them somewhat vulnerable (compared to their powerful natural form)."

Illusions don't change your stats or make you more vulnerable.

I was searching for that bit all day. Where was it?

[The Seven]

Dragons or drakes? What's the difference?

There are dragons that were born metas. They are called drakes. Drakes can speak metahuman language in metahuman form (see Drakes, p. 59, RC, and Creating a Drake Character, p. 74, RC).

Also, from the 65-BP Drake quality: Dragons or other drakes that possess the Dragonspeech power (p. 296, SR4) may teach drake initiates the ability as a metamagic technique. (p. 76, RC); that essentially means that drakes do not begin with Dragonspeech. Those, I think, are the most suitable NPC types for a drake in your campaign, especially with the Latent Dracomorphosis quality (only 5 BP!); what best type of recurring villain/Prime Runner than a low-ball whose butt your team's tired of kicking suddenly becoming a dragon?

Dragons that were born dragons are just too damn powerful, even if they ain't Great, imo.