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getting Players switched over

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Halen524

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« on: <04-30-11/0100:32> »
So ive got a group that I've been playing Dungeons with for around 7 years(the usuals at least) with, a few years back we started talkin about playin SR and finally got it together, but the problem I seem to be having trouble getting the players switched to the shadowrun style. its not so much the mechanics or the setting they can't grab its more the role-playing end, i can't seem to get them to understand the the method of running from finding info on a target to carrying out a mission, i find myself basically telling them exactly what to do, and when I try to get them to do what they want they complain about how im not telling them what to do lol, so I was  wondering if anyone had any tips as to how to get them into the swing of things.

CanRay

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« Reply #1 on: <04-30-11/0128:12> »
Max Headroom and Film Noir.  Get a bunch of them, and have the group watch them.  Tell them that's how it's done.

Shaft (The original) and Mike Hammer TV Episodes also work.
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Sid

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« Reply #2 on: <04-30-11/0156:01> »
Burn Notice and Leverage are more recent examples. (though I couldn't sit through two episodes of Leverage)

Strange Days, Virtuousity, Johnny Mnemonic, Freejack, Videodrome, Gattaca, Splice, Escape from LA/NY, Inception ... they all take a slice, too.
« Last Edit: <04-30-11/0158:39> by Sid »

Fortinbras

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« Reply #3 on: <04-30-11/0701:30> »
How would you characterize your style of play? Did you use miniatures? Did your DnD characters have motivations beyond treasure? Did your fights have color besides numbers? Was your DnD setting a fully realized world, or a random dungeon generator? Which edition did you use and why?Did players often develop unexpected solutions to problems, or did they often follow the track laid out before them? How often did they roll to solve problem versus how often did they create solutions based on real world strategies?
For example: When they entered a room and asked "Are there traps?" did the GM respond "Roll to Search for Traps." or did he respond "How are you searching?" Shadowrun and roleplaying in general lends itself far more to the latter than to the former.
In your DnD game, were there solutions to problems that required no rolls what-so-ever? If someone came up with a neat idea for his characters actions, was he allowed to do it dispite there being no RAW for it, or did the GM respond that he didn't have the Feat(or whatever) to do that yet.
This is also a big hang up for roleplaying. The first time my girlfriend player 4E(no judgments, just saying) she asked "Is my character wearing high heels?" After a bit of argument, the GM said "Yes." My lady friend then said "I pole vault myself up, using my spear, and kick the dragon in the eye with my heel."
Now that is an awesome thing! The GM then said "Since you don't have that card, because it doesn't exist, it's a standard melee action." She rolled. She hit. Standard damage was done. It's the same as if she said "I hit it with my ax." and went back to her iPhone. Awesome idea was met with boring response. She came up with a cool idea and was told her cool idea didn't mesh with the rules, and thus independent thought was crushed and she never wanted to play DnD again. I have yet to get her to try it again.
Make sure this hasn't happened to your players. Reward their creativity. Use rulings, not rules.
I could go on, but I feel I need more info about your group.

If nothing else, consider ditching miniatures. It creates a mechanical and associative disconnect that is hard to regain.
"Where are the bad guys in relation to my range penalty?"
"They're shooting at you! Oh God, they're everywhere!" gets people more in the mood than looking at a map and deciding you are God with a disposable piece of stat pewter.
O, proud Death, What feast is toward thine eternal cell, That thou so many princes at a shot So bloodily hast struck?
Fortinbras- Hamlet. Act V, Sceen II

Blond Goth Girl

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« Reply #4 on: <04-30-11/1119:19> »
Burn Notice and Leverage are more recent examples. (though I couldn't sit through two episodes of Leverage)

Strange Days, Virtuousity, Johnny Mnemonic, Freejack, Videodrome, Gattaca, Splice, Escape from LA/NY, Inception ... they all take a slice, too.

Completely agreed on the movies and shows for inspiration.  Add Blade Runner, Equilibrium and A Clockwork Orange

I do role play awards to get folks out of that DnD mindset (I gain points by killing Kobalds).  See my posts for a list

Sid

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« Reply #5 on: <04-30-11/1228:13> »
Brazil and Repomen offer an insider perspective on going head to head with a megacorp. Renaissance, too, but that runs with a different theme.

Most of what's suggested has (by memory) at least a few friends, contacts or other characters that inform, support or otherwise help anyone you could consider a PC. If your group has come from D&D, how are they on that front? Do they have a social network that they can poke for help / idea bouncing? (friends, family, allies, rivals, gentlemanly enemies, johnsons, contacts, acquaintances, online forums, each other ...)

If they already have any connections in place, then they're a useful way to pull them into tangents that might help with gear or info for the current 'run. (or just make someone grateful)

John Schmidt

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« Reply #6 on: <04-30-11/1431:11> »
Beyond suggesting...'The Usual Suspects'

There are two major considerations how comfortable the players are with the setting and how well versed in the setting and rules you are as the GM? Start off small to get people used to the setting, leave the Renraku Arcology for down the road and something like hijacking a tractor trailer rig hauling a prototype.

Remember, you are in esssence the cameraman as the GM...the players 'see' what you describe. Descriptions of security drones monitoring the streets, perimeter  fences, watcher spirits in astral space, and more, all serve to bring into focus the pertinent elements of the scene for the PC's. The descriptive cues that you give as the GM foreshadow the dangers that the PC's face.
It's not the one with your name on it; it's the one addressed "to whom it may concern" you've got to think about.

Halen524

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« Reply #7 on: <04-30-11/1630:10> »
Thanks for the tips guys I'll take that stuff into consideration

As for the style of dnd we usually end up with fairly heavy battle emphasis, not necessarily because I don't flesh out the world, but more because the players are set in that kill stuff to level up  mentality. But the dnd battle aren't just by the numbers if a player wants to run up the dragon's back and attack it then I let him so long as he succeeds a balance Check, but then he gets a decent bonus for the extra effort, in Shadowrun I'm having trouble awarding bonuses for the extra effort that aren't either to powerful or not worth it, any tips?

Fortinbras

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« Reply #8 on: <05-03-11/0943:20> »
I kill it to gain XP is a difficult mentality to escape. It is also necessary if table top roleplaying is going to survive.
Firstly, make it perfectly clear that killing people doesn't net them karma. Say it three times a game until it sinks in.  At the end of the game, tell them the things they earned Karma for. Rather than say "Y'all get 5 Karma." say "Y'all get one karma for playing, one for figuring out where the Corporate CEO lived, one for infiltrating the compound, one for roleplaying well, etc..."

Next, use the Notoriety system. It is one of the most versatile tools of the GM and one of the most underutilized. They do something cool, like make contacts in the barrens to discover info rather than torturing the next guy they see, they gain Street Cred. They do something uncool, like kill an NPC for no reason or take the last beer without asking, they gain Notoriety.
I like to make a good chunk of the group's income come from the Negotiation roll with the Johnson. This emphasizes good roleplaying and gives a monetary reward for good Street Cred.

Lastly, once you have all your skinner box carrots and sticks in place, just be impartial. A lot of roleplayers want to hack and smash things to show that they can, to throw wrench into what they feel is the GMs attempt to railroad them into how to play a character. To get a rise out of him. You can't do that. What they say they do, they do. You simply have to create the consequences of that action, and you need to do it fairly and within reason.
One of my favorite sayings is "The GM doesn't hate you, but he does represent people who do."
In my experience, once a player says "I throw the baby out the window." and the GM's response is with neither horror, disgust or incredulousness, but rather "Okay. It falls." the bloom is off the rose and the actual role playing can begin.
O, proud Death, What feast is toward thine eternal cell, That thou so many princes at a shot So bloodily hast struck?
Fortinbras- Hamlet. Act V, Sceen II

CanRay

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« Reply #9 on: <05-03-11/1237:48> »
"Oh, you'll be getting Karma for burning down that orphanage.  Just remember, Karma's a slitch!"

Then make a female character named Karma who had family in that orphanage.   ;D
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Bradd

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« Reply #10 on: <05-03-11/1408:51> »
Notoriety is a good tool, although beware the player who sees it as a reward!

CanRay

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« Reply #11 on: <05-03-11/1702:46> »
Notoriety is a good tool, although beware the player who sees it as a reward!
Unless it's built into the character background and concept.

But, yes, there are some that would see it, "Well, if you don't want me to do it, why do you keep rewarding me?"  :P
Si vis pacem, para bellum

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