[Seamus Harper]

I'm trying to limit my spell selection (currently would be over 130 BP just in spells and took a while to whittle it this far) and had a few questions.

First, would Mana Window and Astral Window, described as "advanced" versions of Clairvoyance and Astral Clairvoyance, completely replace any need for those (Clairvoyance and Astral Clairvoyance) if the change in DV isn't an issue? 

Also, according to p 194 "Mana barriers on the physical plane are invisible (except to astral perception), but they act as solid barriers to spells, manifesting entities, spirits, and active foci. Should a magician try to cast a spell through a barrier, the target of the spell adds the Force of the barrier to its resistance dice pool."  So without Mana Window would one roll against force of the barrier alone (which would be the resistance dice pool after adding zero for the "visual point" targeted) when casting through a barrier and in no way be affected if there were a way to target the visual point without crossing the barrier (ie if the barrier were a wall and the caster took an angle that meant the barrier were not between him and the visual point)?  I really haven't dealt with mana barriers much in play and never in regards to clairvoyance.  Clairvoyance's spell description mentions nothing about barriers but Mana Window says Clairvoyance "is normally stopped by them."

And I forget the other questions now. 

Edit:  Thought of one related similar situation; is there any situation where there's an advantage to Mana Barrier over Offensive Mana Barrier, other than DV, that I'm missing?

[Charybdis]

Ack, I've made this same mistake with a beginning mage. Please learn from my fail 

A) If you're a starting PC, 130BP in spells is WAY overkill. I am currently playing a L6 initiate, and I have a total of 8 spells, 2 of which have been used on solitary single occasions.

B) There is no point getting multiple sustainable spells (Mana window, Barrier variants etc etc). You can't sustain them indefintely, and by the time you've set the scene with a couple of these spells, combat is over before you've done anything useful (Combat in our games is normally 2 full rounds.... only a few encounters have lasted longer due to terrain conditions and sneaky modifiers

C) Spend the points on other things to make you a better spellcaster (Attributes, Foci, Contacts, Bound spirits). Shadowrun is a game that favours specialists.
~ It's nice being able to play a few bars of every song ever written, but you only need four brilliant performance pieces to join an orchestra.

D) Mana Barrier vs Offensive Mana Barrier... sometimes you don't want to hurt people, just fence them in. It's the equivalent of using a chain link fence vs an electric one with razor wire.

E) Clairvoyance into a warded/mana barrier area gets the same penalties for spellcasting as anything else (hence the words 'normally stopped by them')

What is it you're trying to accomplish with this character? Is he a scholarly NPC who just has every spell available for other people to learn (like a librarian), or is he an active Shadowrunner?

~ If scholarly NPC, I think you're on the right track. Everyone needs an arcane expert to consult with every now and then.

~ If it's an active Shadowrunner, I think you need to dial down the OMG spell list, and focus on a limited selection of spells you want to cast really well. Then pump up your attributes, bond the appropriate Foci, get the right mentor spirit and be fully respected in your area of expertise.

[Seamus Harper]

Ack, I've made this same mistake with a beginning mage. Please learn from my fail 

A) If you're a starting PC, 130BP in spells is WAY overkill. I am currently playing a L6 initiate, and I have a total of 8 spells, 2 of which have been used on solitary single occasions.

B) There is no point getting multiple sustainable spells (Mana window, Barrier variants etc etc). You can't sustain them indefintely, and by the time you've set the scene with a couple of these spells, combat is over before you've done anything useful (Combat in our games is normally 2 full rounds.... only a few encounters have lasted longer due to terrain conditions and sneaky modifiers

C) Spend the points on other things to make you a better spellcaster (Attributes, Foci, Contacts, Bound spirits). Shadowrun is a game that favours specialists.
~ It's nice being able to play a few bars of every song ever written, but you only need four brilliant performance pieces to join an orchestra.

D) Mana Barrier vs Offensive Mana Barrier... sometimes you don't want to hurt people, just fence them in. It's the equivalent of using a chain link fence vs an electric one with razor wire.

E) Clairvoyance into a warded/mana barrier area gets the same penalties for spellcasting as anything else (hence the words 'normally stopped by them')

What is it you're trying to accomplish with this character? Is he a scholarly NPC who just has every spell available for other people to learn (like a librarian), or is he an active Shadowrunner?

~ If scholarly NPC, I think you're on the right track. Everyone needs an arcane expert to consult with every now and then.

~ If it's an active Shadowrunner, I think you need to dial down the OMG spell list, and focus on a limited selection of spells you want to cast really well. Then pump up your attributes, bond the appropriate Foci, get the right mentor spirit and be fully respected in your area of expertise.

I appreciate the response...I hope my overlong re-response doesn't make you regret it lol!

A) I can't imagine ever initiating to Grade 6 (I think that's 81 Karma before factoring in the cost to raise magic or the possibility of raising anything else in that time), although it is nice to dream!  As for 130 being overkill, I know it is...I didn't say it very well but that was sort of the impetus for the questions; I'm trying to eliminate any spell that is totally redundant (in this case I was leaning toward taking Clairvoyance and Astral Clairvoyance out and just leaving the "Advanced" versions).

B) A lot of the spells I'm considering, I wasn't thinking of using for combat; clairvoyance in particular I was thinking of for recon/legwork, so the sustaining shouldn't be too much of an issue; and a lot of the defensive ones I wouldn't mind having a -1 or 2 (considering casual drug use to get the -1 when necessary) for since I can drop them if needed when I act (be it to cast an offensive spell or to pick a lock or w/e).  Combat itself (the category I mean) I have narrowed it down to Stunball...I sort of would enjoy the challenge of not taking it at all, but I fear being eaten by spirits etc if not (not even sure if Orgy would affect them).  Influence and/or Alter Memory solve most people problems beyond combat.  It really is a bit irrational to want more spells and I keep trying to talk myself out of them but it seems like a waste of a flying creature not to solve most conflicts with a combination of Ice Sheet and running away, if only for the looks on their (prone) faces.

C)
1) (the attribute bit) Unfortunately as it it I've already got the stats that matter (Cha and Will in my case) at 7 (and ofc Magic at 6); I'm actually thinking of lowering them to 6 just to make casting Increase (Attribute) easier since even then a Force 6 could still get me to augmented max (12).  Increase (Attribute) is actually 8 of the spells I'm having trouble narrowing down lol.  Agility might be first on the chopping block if it came to it.  And yes, I know I will never have all 8 up at once; I just also feel like raising my natural strength by 1--which would cost 10 BP--is even less likely to help than having Increase (Body/Reaction/Strength) which would cost 9 BP.  Plus I can raise my strength with karma for 10, whereas buying those three spells later would cost 15. 
2) Spirits just...partly I don't want to learn more rules (I know it's dumb, I just get a block when people re-explain them to me) partly it feels a little like cheating (which is odd given how much I cheese everything else, I dunno) but F12 Spirits of Man iirc can cast and sustain spells for me but with more dice than I have anyhow and without me caring what drain they take.  If I do get into Summoning, I will certainly regret not getting summoning foci--unless I get a power focus--and higher conjuring skills but iirc Spirits of Man can only cast spells I know, so the deep grimoire may also be something I regret giving up (in theory).  As far as bound ones, afaik (which isn't very far at all lol), don't regular ones have all the same abilities, just you have to summon them again each sunrise or something?  And I think they are free whereas bound are cheap but not free(?).
3) Foci I'm still crunching the numbers on.  A F4 Power Focus seems a no-brainer but it is annoyingly expensive (29 BP, including 40% of gear max and 5/35 PQs)...sustaining foci would be a lot more appealing if higher Ratings could be bought at chargen, although I'm sure I still want some...the problem with, say, a Health Sustaining Focus, is that if it's R3 an Increase Charisma before a social interaction could at most give me a +3...Force 6 w/o the focus could net me a +4 (not a huge gain by not using one but a lot of BP to get something that's a net loss albeit only in one example).  Will be easier once/if I narrow down my spells and see what categories have some spells I'd want to sustain at low force.  Weapon Focus is still on my table, but it is of course, sub-optimal (Astral Combat probably more of a point sink than excess utility spells by objective measure)...there will rarely come a day where somebody is easier to take out with a weapon focus than stunball (afaik) but were that day to come, it would be a cool one, and cool is at least as desirable as optimal (to a point).
4) Contacts I'm not sure what I'd do with...the jobs I get will be decided by what Missions I take her to (which I presume is the main benefit of extra/better fixers) and I doubt I'd ever afford (nuyen OR karma-wise) anything I'd need a talismonger for.  I will probably have a crazy loyal hacker for the times I need email read to me and don't have a PC I can trust to do that for me (I am Uneducated).
5) Because it's for Missions I'm supposed to try to cover all bases since I can't know the composition of my group (this is why I need Prophylaxis, bc we might not have a troll or ork handy for an all-important hurlg drinking contest, and not just because I think it makes me look cool when my Pixie drinks a tavern of Dwarves under the table) but I definitely agree specialization is pretty important (in ANY game really, at least of what I've played).  I think the main thing of getting high spellcasting, magic, and drain stats covers me pretty well for spellcasting though (I hope), and still leaves me with points to spend on other things (like Assensing OR Astral Combat or Negotiation...).

D) Electric fence with razor wire...you just made that choice easy! > 

E) Thanks!  So it's "normally stops" as in routinely (bc the caster didn't overcome the barrier) not as in always (bc it would be impossible.  Looks like the 'advanced' versions trade higher DV for making a different sort of test (the barrier has to try to overcome your spell rather than your spell having to overcome it)...still not an auto-success...this looks like math to me...

[Charybdis]

So let me get this straight:
A) You have 130BP of Spells
B) You have Magic @6, with Wil and Cha @7 (which is about 170BP, depending on Race and whether anything is @Max rating for 25BP)
C) So you have just 100BP left for: Skills, Equipment, Other attributes.... o.O

I'd be real interested to see this whole character, because I think narrowing down your spell selection is just one of several concerns you may face on a run.

As for Alter Memory, Influence etc, I actually recommend chucking most of them in for Mob Mind. With your attributes, drain is less of an issue, and Mob Mind lets you do terrible, terrible commands to individuals or groups.

For combat, I've gone with Stunbolt, Stunball, Power bolt and Lightning bolt...it's my biggest spell group.
~ Stunbolt (especially with Multicasting rules) will take out any spirit which doesn't have Counterspelling...period.
~ Stunball can do the same, but you can't avoid targetting friendlies in the AOE, therefore it's nice to have a precision single target attack for when the spirit is mixing up the melee with allies
~ Powerbolt is good for damaging non-living objects (anything from a door, to a wall or even (if very lucky) a tank)
~ Lightning bolt is my semi-redundant, but cinematic I'm really pissed and am going to take a lot of drain just to impressively screw you over-spell

I don't use Barrier spells at all, although am considering getting a Physical Barrier just to mess with Car chases. Although the Ice Sheet manipulation spell would also suffice for that.
If I need an Astral barrier of any sort, it's 90% likely it's for an area I have time to Ward properly. The one time it would have been useful I actually didn't have time to cast it anyway, so was a moot point.

Clairvoyance and Mana window are OK, but I've never needed them. With decent Magic and Charisma, you can fool/force your way through a decent ward (thus negating Mana Window requirements), and I've yet to see a Clairvoyance spell do anything a lowly watcher spirit couldn't do...especially considering the limited range of the spell, whereas Watchers can travel a hella' long way.

With a good charisma, I think you're doing yourself a disservice not getting some basics in the Conjuring group. Summoning is actually easier to learn than most spell descriptions:
- A) Choose Force of spirit to summon
- B) Choose type of spirit
- C) Roll conjuring to get your number of services
- D) Roll drain
- E) Command spirit to do terrible, terrible things to opponents (or generally do things you couldn't otherwise imagine, like:
~ Automatically search for whatever you're looking for
~ Change the weather
~ Do combat for you
~ Counterspell the crap out of everything
~ Setup a ward
~ Use one of any number of other evil critter powers that are near impossible to resist

Horses for courses, but having a spell-list a mile-long isn't actually helpful in Shadowrun. This isn't old-school DnD where the mages compare Spellbooks for bragging rights. Shadowrun is quick and dirty. No time for long discourse on the pros and cons of your spell-choice when the bullets are flying...

[Ten-Hex]

How do you have more than 130bp of spells? The maximum number of spells you can take in character generation is 2x your spellcasting or ritual spellcasting skill, whichever is greater.

So, taking the aptitude (spellcasting) quality and starting with spellcasting 7 would let you take 14 spells (42bp). That's pretty much the limit for standard character generation rules.

[Seamus Harper]

How do you have more than 130bp of spells? The maximum number of spells you can take in character generation is 2x your spellcasting or ritual spellcasting skill, whichever is greater.

So, taking the aptitude (spellcasting) quality and starting with spellcasting 7 would let you take 14 spells (42bp). That's pretty much the limit for standard character generation rules.

I'm still scribbling/tweaking; basically, I don't "have" over 130 points of spells, that's just what I have on my list (to whittle from).  And I totally forgot/missed the bit about spell limits...I checked that they didn't count against the 50 pt resources limit and assumed it didn't count against the attribute or quality point limits.  Now I am sad.  Although a little relieved at having the decision made for me (and was not going to take Aptitude for Spellcasting but now might). :/

So let me get this straight:
A) You have 130BP of Spells
B) You have Magic @6, with Wil and Cha @7 (which is about 170BP, depending on Race and whether anything is @Max rating for 25BP)
C) So you have just 100BP left for: Skills, Equipment, Other attributes.... o.O

I'd be real interested to see this whole character, because I think narrowing down your spell selection is just one of several concerns you may face on a run.

As for Alter Memory, Influence etc, I actually recommend chucking most of them in for Mob Mind. With your attributes, drain is less of an issue, and Mob Mind lets you do terrible, terrible commands to individuals or groups.

For combat, I've gone with Stunbolt, Stunball, Power bolt and Lightning bolt...it's my biggest spell group.
~ Stunbolt (especially with Multicasting rules) will take out any spirit which doesn't have Counterspelling...period.
~ Stunball can do the same, but you can't avoid targetting friendlies in the AOE, therefore it's nice to have a precision single target attack for when the spirit is mixing up the melee with allies
~ Powerbolt is good for damaging non-living objects (anything from a door, to a wall or even (if very lucky) a tank)
~ Lightning bolt is my semi-redundant, but cinematic I'm really pissed and am going to take a lot of drain just to impressively screw you over-spell

I don't use Barrier spells at all, although am considering getting a Physical Barrier just to mess with Car chases. Although the Ice Sheet manipulation spell would also suffice for that.
If I need an Astral barrier of any sort, it's 90% likely it's for an area I have time to Ward properly. The one time it would have been useful I actually didn't have time to cast it anyway, so was a moot point.

Clairvoyance and Mana window are OK, but I've never needed them. With decent Magic and Charisma, you can fool/force your way through a decent ward (thus negating Mana Window requirements), and I've yet to see a Clairvoyance spell do anything a lowly watcher spirit couldn't do...especially considering the limited range of the spell, whereas Watchers can travel a hella' long way.

With a good charisma, I think you're doing yourself a disservice not getting some basics in the Conjuring group. Summoning is actually easier to learn than most spell descriptions:
- A) Choose Force of spirit to summon
- B) Choose type of spirit
- C) Roll conjuring to get your number of services
- D) Roll drain
- E) Command spirit to do terrible, terrible things to opponents (or generally do things you couldn't otherwise imagine, like:
~ Automatically search for whatever you're looking for
~ Change the weather
~ Do combat for you
~ Counterspell the crap out of everything
~ Setup a ward
~ Use one of any number of other evil critter powers that are near impossible to resist

Horses for courses, but having a spell-list a mile-long isn't actually helpful in Shadowrun. This isn't old-school DnD where the mages compare Spellbooks for bragging rights. Shadowrun is quick and dirty. No time for long discourse on the pros and cons of your spell-choice when the bullets are flying...

Much of the character is a work in progress, like I said, and attributes will probably get a boost now that my spells are capped (well, now that I know they are) but my stats, to satisfy your curiosity (written in very faint pencil):

B  1   C 7 (40BP) (may drop this and Will to 6 each as mentioned above)
A  3   I  2
R  3   L  2 (most likely to raise, largely so I can have more active foci and a few more knowledge points)
S  1   W 7 (40BP)
(Most of my spells tend toward detection and evasion, I'm squishy; in my defense though, I can *guarantee* I won't become a corpse)

M 6 (65BP)
Edge 6 (40BP) this is likely to drop if I run low on points but for now I'm liking the wild card, especially for dodging a rare full auto burst
Race (35BP) (Subtotal 220)

Qualities I expect to be a wash (35 ea.)
15 for Magician
some mix of Restricted Gears (Foci), Mentor Spirit (Dragon right now), possibly Astral Chameleon or First Impression, now maybe Aptitude (Spellcasting) for the other 20
I know (well, assume) some will suggest "Will to Live" (x3) but mortality I'm ok with
I'm really leaning towards 4 ranks of gremlins because I would love to see the look on the other players faces when they see me investigating their smart guns or asking what "this button" does on any tech junk, Pacifist (5) etc

Spells 42 or fewer   One thing is if I do use Mob Mind I might still need alter memory (to delay potential vengeance for a year(s) if I leave them alive).  You make a good case for dropping clairvoyance (although the "extended" version makes the range potentially 720 meters--if I cast at F12 and if I read it right) since Watchers can replace it and do better.  Reminding me about multicasting and friendly fire issues is making me really think of taking stunbolt instead of ball but I still lean against taking both...lightning bolt sounds fun but this character is more about not being seen.  Powerbolt also sounds pretty useful as a utility now that you mention it, although I think there might be some gear good at blasting through walls or something...out of 30 spells I think it would make the cut...out of 14 or fewer I will have to think p hard but it is tempting.

Skills and Gear now 138 pts...probably better that way ...the only thing I had fairly certain was Sorcery suite at 4 which used to be most of my points (always intended to cull as many spells as I could and use the points for influence, stealth skills...did not think it would be quite this many).  I had very very minimal gear planned but could end up using the points now.  Spellcasting would be 32 pts by itself if I do take Aptitude though.  Astral Combat, if I don't drop it, I plan on buying one rank and a specialty (currently leaning monowhip on account of it should weigh like 2 ozs by my reckoning) with Karma, if I do spring for the weapon focus (12BP plus the Quality) that would give me at least 14 dice.  Power Focus would be 24 pts (plus the 5 pts from qualities) which I suppose is worth it since 4 points of summoning would be 16 points by itself even if it didn't count toward spellcasting also.    Counterspelling and Assensing are the only other Magical Skills in the running (never had a use for Ritual Magic or binding and banishing can be accomplished with stunball or astral combat afaik...and Assensing can kinda be replaced with Analyze or Detect Magic or w/e, counterspelling actually might be left for a spirit to do since you mentioned they can do that).  Arcana is the only Logic skill I might ever get but not for a long while yet (probably not until/unless I need an ally spirit).  Dodge might be nice but since it kills actions and spells can kinda replace it, was thinking of passing.  Perception again would be nice but I might pick up one rank and a specialty (visual) with Karma instead...Hawkeye can help with important situations.  Influence and Stealth or skills from them with the rest.  Only gear besides the foci I can think of is a camouflage suit.  And a lifestyle and contacts natch.  Never really been one for high tech gear and/or reading about it, which is part of the appeal of mages (not having to compare and modify 80 pgs of guns).

Anyhow, you've given me a lot to think about, I will post my updated (14th Draft) character when I work out some kinks (and the final sometime by Saturday evening which is when she's making her debut).

Also not sure what the protocols are here but if a mod wants to move this, that would be ok (now that my initial question has been answered and this has become basically character creation and critique).

[Bradd]

Our magician just learned Alter Memory to pull off a heist. It's good for making people forget you, but there are other uses too. For example, you can make a guard think he already made his rounds, so that he never leaves the security office. The great thing with small details like that, is that even when the spell finally wears off, the altered memory is so insignificant that it just doesn't matter. But in the short term, it gives you a huge advantage.

[Charybdis]

B  1   C 7 (40BP) (may drop this and Will to 6 each as mentioned above)
A  3   I  2
R  3   L  2 (most likely to raise, largely so I can have more active foci and a few more knowledge points)
S  1   W 7 (40BP)
(Most of my spells tend toward detection and evasion, I'm squishy; in my defense though, I can *guarantee* I won't become a corpse)

M 6 (65BP)
Edge 6 (40BP) this is likely to drop if I run low on points but for now I'm liking the wild card, especially for dodging a rare full auto burst
Race (35BP) (Subtotal 220)

Hmmm, errr.... what 35BP race are you taking that gives you a +2 Cha, +2 Wis and +1 Edge? o.O
That's the only way I can see those Cha 7, Wil 7 and Edge 6 ratings being accurate spending that BP.

I'm also curious about the line 'I can *guarantee* I won't become a corpse)'. Only races that can Guarantee such a thing are free spirits and AI's. Is this a mechanical ability, or just a playing style?

Back to the Spell list query: I also forgot about the spell limit because it has never actually applied to my limited spell list
So with a Spellcasting at 6 (24BP) you can get a maximum of 12 spells (36BP).
Note: This is more than enough for an entire Shadowrunning career, and at Character generation I don't recommend you Max out with the full 12, as with upcoming sourcebooks (or playtime experience) you may then have to swap out known spells for new ones (to stay within your limits) and will have thus wasted those initial BP.

[Ten-Hex]

The limit is only for character generation. You can learn 5,000 spells through karma during gameplay, if you want.

35bp race with those silly mods? He's going pixie.

[Seamus Harper]

Part of the reason I wanted a lot of spells at char gen was karma is almost 2x the BP, and because initiating etc are priorities I *can't* buy with BP (and thus want to allocate much of my karma to) so I might pick a few to pick up later but probably going to at least get 12 now (the extra 18 points for 7 Spellcasting is a bit excessive though now that you point out the learn spells later thing [those last two would only be 10 Karma instead of the 6BP *plus* needing Aptitude] although it's definitely a steal compared to [if I mathed right] 41 karma so I dunno...if I skip that I will definitely never get it but I think that's ok, it pays for most of the power focus by dropping it).

Pixie disadvantage "Vanishing" means I disappear from existence when I die or some such.  Not sure what Pixies "are" (ie what 5th world thing awakened as them) but they apparently go somewhere nifty instead of dying (or so I optimistically claim).  Believe me, if it came down to playing style my odds of becoming a corpse are well above average (in our Space 1889 game I've called my style the Oregon Trails method where we just keep passing the gravestones of my old characters---tbh I've only lost one [and I wasn't the only person to lose a character] but it was memorable and people keep expecting me to die a few times a session [my fighting style involves wading into groups of twenty gunmen--and once a sandworm--with a pair of sticks]).

[Charybdis]

I'm not au fait with the Pixie race and 'Vanishing' power, but sounds fun

As for Spell selection, I think you're going way overboard with spell selection:
A) Karma for most things is just under 2x BP (for Skills 1-4 and Attributes at around 6. Any higher, and BP is absolutely a better option), so Spells are by no means an exception to this rule
B) BP can be spent on more things than just Spells. Getting skills or skill groups to a nice high level are highly recommended
.. as a general rule, it's good to pick a few things (Skills and/or good attributes) to get as HIGH as they can with BP, then build on the little stuff later.
Example:
Skills: ~ BP Getting a Skill to 4 = 4+4+4+4 = 16BP
Skills: ~ Karma getting a skill to 4 = 4+4+8+12 = 28Karma

Back to OP question though. What is it you're trying to DO as a spellcaster?
- Are you a combat person?
- Are you a stealthy person?
- Are you a utility person?
- Are you a healer?
- Are you a ritualist?
- Are you a summoner?

Trying to be everything will make you good at nothing.
I really recommend picking a few, making sure you know how to use them inside and out, then learn a few more as experience dictates.

[Ten-Hex]

Not sure what Pixies "are" (ie what 5th world thing awakened as them) but they apparently go somewhere nifty instead of dying (or so I optimistically claim). 

Nothing Awakened to become pixies. They are windlings from Earthdawn... where they were during the non-magical downcycle is probably related to their vanishing negative quality, and a question best answered probably by one of the immortal beings (elf, dragon, whatever) who was around to see them go away and come back.

[Seamus Harper]

Not sure what Pixies "are" (ie what 5th world thing awakened as them) but they apparently go somewhere nifty instead of dying (or so I optimistically claim). 

Nothing Awakened to become pixies. They are windlings from Earthdawn... where they were during the non-magical downcycle is probably related to their vanishing negative quality, and a question best answered probably by one of the immortal beings (elf, dragon, whatever) who was around to see them go away and come back.

I guess the term sapient "critters" made me think of the races as mundane animals during the fifth world (like windlings were bugs during the down cycle or something; centaurs are "equines"...I assumed Awakened horses; shifters are awakened "paranimals" w/e that means) whose "sapience" relied on the higher tide of the magic cycle (it helps that I only yesterday noticed I'd misread the sapience power; I used to think it was cancelled by high background counts).  Dragons are obvious exceptions but I figured Aspected counts in their lairs and/or the whole Astral Cocoon thing had something to do with retaining sentience (or more accurately I just accepted they were exceptional to what I thought was the rule).  Or else I got the idea from some people at the ED boards who IIRC were pretty sure T'Skrang were mundane lizards in 2070 waiting for a high enough magic level to awaken.  Anyhow I like your suggestions (both that they probably Vanished and that dragons and Immortal elves are the people to ask about that).  Some people in my group actually have tried to convince me my new character is not a Windling (I only use the term Pixie here for clarity, IRL I say Windling, mostly to rile some people I know who refuse to believe the 4th and 6th worlds are connected), but then I ask how they explain the Astral Sight, increased Edge (Windling Karma Dice actually > Humans but I suppose +2 Edge would be cheating), and +2 Charisma.

I'm not au fait with the Pixie race and 'Vanishing' power, but sounds fun

As for Spell selection, I think you're going way overboard with spell selection:
A) Karma for most things is just under 2x BP (for Skills 1-4 and Attributes at around 6. Any higher, and BP is absolutely a better option), so Spells are by no means an exception to this rule
B) BP can be spent on more things than just Spells. Getting skills or skill groups to a nice high level are highly recommended
.. as a general rule, it's good to pick a few things (Skills and/or good attributes) to get as HIGH as they can with BP, then build on the little stuff later.
Example:
Skills: ~ BP Getting a Skill to 4 = 4+4+4+4 = 16BP
Skills: ~ Karma getting a skill to 4 = 4+4+8+12 = 28Karma

Back to OP question though. What is it you're trying to DO as a spellcaster?
- Are you a combat person?
- Are you a stealthy person?
- Are you a utility person?
- Are you a healer?
- Are you a ritualist?
- Are you a summoner?

Trying to be everything will make you good at nothing.
I really recommend picking a few, making sure you know how to use them inside and out, then learn a few more as experience dictates.

This is the first time I've seen "au fait", it's a rare occurrence I have to look words up so props on the vocab!

I definitely agree about the importance of focusing on just a few things and maxing them out...my attributes are pretty min/maxed and even though skills aren't spelled out yet those are a pretty short list; Summoning, Spellcasting, Etiquette and Negotiation OR the whole Influence suite, Infiltration OR the whole Stealth suite; basically those I want at 4 (except spellcasting at 6 probably) and if I had enough left over I might also take Assensing, Counterspelling, or Dodge at 3 or 4.  A lot of other skills (like Astral Combat, Perception...or probably even some of the above if I run out of points earlier) that I will only take a point or two of (plus a specialty) I am waiting to buy with karma.  Between that and initiation I have dozens of unearned Karma spoken for all at 1:1 BP:K planned to spend (I'm lumping in initiation with the 1:1 since there's no BP equivalent to get cheaper) so even though Spells might not be the worst tradeoff, it depends on how long I play this character whether I get there or not.  Skills can't be bought above 4 anyhow (with the one exception or two).  If I have to find some extra points for initial skills I might drop that 6th point of Magic...5:6 BP:K ratio is pretty close to 1:1 (if I did the math right).  As for starting spells if I had to choose between 10 spells now and 5 magic or 2 spells now and 6 magic, and wanted to end up with 6 magic and ten spells either way, the latter would cost 1 more BP and 10 more karma.  Probably not the best example, and you're right to say I might just be better off not taking 10 spells, but just showing how my brain was coming at this.

Re-quoting the latter half to include my answer, caps/bold just so the me part jumps out:
Back to OP question though. What is it you're trying to DO as a spellcaster?
- Are you a combat person?  NO
- Are you a stealthy person? YES
- Are you a utility person? YES
- Are you a healer? NO
- Are you a ritualist? NO
- Are you a summoner? YES (you pretty much sold me on this one, was not big in the original plan really)
Basically I want to be able to do recon very, very carefully, preferably from far, far away, and always without being seen.  I also want to be nigh untouchable during the few seconds it takes me to extricate myself from combat (pixies fly "run"-speed at 50).  I also planned on using stat boost spells to help competent folk with what they do better as well as--with Edge to boot--make myself a bit of a wild card (although Uneducated rules out a ridiculous number of skills).  One of the main "filler" areas, which I am leaning towards "maxing" with 4s is basically being a substitute Face.  By no means is it my main goal, but as you pointed out, some things are almost a waste not to do when you have high Charisma (plus I can't count on having a real Face each week and do want to provide a fall back option for getting the most Nuyen so I can upgrade Foci and such over time).  Spellwise, I really would prefer to find more unique things (like Extended Spatial Sense where you can just have the GM hand you the blueprint, unlike street sams although I suppose hackers could do this now that I think about it, just differently...or maybe Dream...without a lot of cyber in your brain I'm pretty sure sending people messages in their dreams is something only mages can do...or Hibernate so we can sneak someone into the morgue more easily or Prophylaxis for the proverbial drinking contest...Mana Static so the ubermage/uberspirit that totally should outclass me has to fight all our street sams--and maybe my astral combat not sure how that goes--instead, Fix so if we find the "Book of Blue Spirits" in tatters we can repair it or I can keep the hacker's repair roll critical glitch from depriving us of a carburetor, etc etc) but I also wanted to be able to boost attributes and perception and dodginess etc and I'm sad about probably giving up the more "fluff"/unique situation ones.

Glimpse at the Grimoire:
Physical Camouflage is crazy high on my spell priority list bc it does a few things in one spell (helps me stay incognito and helps me dodge bullets if I am somehow spotted--or shot at unseen) and afaik should stack its perception mods with concealment etc.  Plus Improved Invisibility is just too generic and even though there's no direct game benefit to it I'm trying to have different spells than whatever other mages show up to my Mission.
Orgy is high because it's fun, and it can give a group crazy negatives ("without them hating you" probably not a RAI "effect" but it is in the description lol) without any chance of (direct) permanent damage which makes friendly fire less dangerous than other area spells.  On my limited list it may have to suffice for replacing Ice Sheet and even combat spells in general as "the thing I cast at hostiles."  Also one of those spells you can probably make a living with or at least a hobby out of.  Technically Chaotic World I think has the same game effect and also affects machines, so I might have to replace this if I can't have both, but for now I'd rather have it.
Influence is actually still ahead of Mob Mind I think.  I want Mob Mind so bad but (iirc) Influence will let me make someone want to tell me the truth and Mob Mind just makes them my puppets; which would be fun but getting information from their brain AND being able to make them do stuff wins.  Same goes for Mind Probe, and the less exciting Compel Truth and Analyze Truth all of which have a chance at getting info but that can be achieved with Influence and making people do stuff with those three can't (please correct me if I'm wrong, I know I might be here, just spitballing from swiss-cheese like memory of recent readings)
Alter Memory is an absolute must, whatever mind fork (I say fork to keep it PG ofc) I do end up with, I need this to get rid of evidence (or at least bury it) as well as the brilliant suggestion above ("you already did your rounds") or any number of shenanigans "Remember, you owed me 10 nuyen?" they hand it to you, remove the memory they did that "I'm still waiting for the nuyen" repeat.  Yes my example was dumb but it made me laugh.   Replace the memory of just which droids he was looking for, add a memory about the camp that he clearly knows me from...I do need to double check that it becomes "permanent" and thus doesn't leave a big astral sign saying "guess who altered my memory" though
Sterilize I suppose it violates my rule about trying not to get spells that a cheap item can do, and bottle of bleach might come close, but I imagine 2070 forensic scientists can do terrible things and if I can quickly avoid all physical evidence (before I scrub all my Astral evidence), I'm all for it.   Leave no trace isn't just a good environmental way to camp, it's also a good way to crime.
Stealth I hate that it uses another spell but afaik even the best camouflage doesn't mask my wingbeat and silence is another good tool in the not being shot arsenal.  Also can be helpful with teammates footsteps etc.
Combat Sense Not ideal but the bonus to surprise may save my life someday and the bonus to dodging bullets and melee will almost certainly be the thing that keeps me alive someday, possibly in Astral Combat.  %wise the "keep me alive" kind of spell is more than I'd like, just trying not to die is hardly a fun and meaningful way to live, but they're hardest to live without in more ways than one so as the list gets shorter they are more of it.
Increase Charisma Should probably be a higher priority than its place here indicates but double duty as 4 extra drain dice and social test dice even without a focus is hard to dismiss.  Plus the potential to have a 12 in something without cyber is just delicious.
Increase Willpower Again a double dip, drain dice and Astral Combat, not to mention resisting cons and fear and such etc.
Increase Intuition Better than Hawkeye, effectively adding to perception but also with Assensing and initiative and such iirc...only need it at Force 2 with stats as they currently are so fits in a cheap sustaining focus (or could get one for a 3 or even up to a 5 with restricted gear in theory)
I think the above is ten spells already; I could name 10 more I'd like (people I know IRL would think the lack of "Armor" and "Increase Body" was a Vanishwish but the most I can *ever* increase body to is 5 [+2 boxes] and armor can be replaced with gear; even though both would be preferable I think it glows or something which is counter to my concept of hiding).  Increase Reaction would be good for the "not getting shot" as well; Control Pack might have infrequent occasion for use but I bet it would be really great in those rare instances.  Fix not only is something I think might be handy but I'd absolutely want it if I got Powerbolt just to clean up visual signs of where I was...I'd like to have both those.  Stunbolt/ball is pretty close to a must if I don't want to fight spirits in Astral Combat or just send other spirits after them, even if putting whole enemy teams to sleep wasn't enough reason.  Increase Reflexes again a crazy good spell but in the Astral I'd already have 3 IPs and I'm hoping not to need them in the physical (since if it matters, I must be in combat, which means I'm dead soon).  Levitate is another good fun "combat" spell...falling damage is brutal not to mention the heavens are an excellent location for negotiating a rational man's surrender, plus rare instances where lifting a teammate off the ground or moving an object remotely might be safer than not may crop up.

[Charybdis]

I am fully onboard with your PC enthusiasm.
I am likewise impressed at you're attention to detail on the math.

My only concern is that still spreading yourself too far thin on spells to do similar things for, well, very thin reasons. You have built this Pixie as a mainly out-of-Combat PC, able to really mess with things IF GIVEN TIME. You need to be aware of this limitation (do Pixies get 1 or 2 Initiative Passes?)
- Improved attribute (XYZ): Improving any attribute is a good idea, but unless you're going to invest HEAVILY in either Quickening or Sustaining Foci, the benefits of increased attributes are very quickly lost via cumulative -2 modifiers for Sustained spells.
- Combat sense: If you're already in combat, it's too late to cast this spell anyway. And unless you have a Focus/Spirit/Quickening to sustain it, you lose 2 ratings of the power just in sustaining it.
- Stealth: Don't bother. Again, sustaining the spell immediately drops 2 dice from its usefulness, and putting more points into the Infiltration skill will give you the same benefit, but permanently.
- Physical Camouflage: This is a solid choice. No problems here
- Alter Memory: This seems to be the biggest Fairy Dust core spell of your character. Not going to try and talk you out of it
- Orgy: I have nothing good to say about this spell. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist in my campaigns, mainly due to capacity for silliness in an otherwise dark campaign. But, different strokes for different folks
- Influence: Meh, I prefer Mob mind, as Influence is easily accomplished by summoning the right spirit type and expending a service to use the critter power. Why waste BP on a spell when spirit can do it for you? (and ignores Counterspelling when it does so?).. Task or Guidance spirits are good for this (Street Magic sourcebook)

I get the feeling you're building this PC as a Cleaner . Your key spells all resolve around pretending you were never involved (Alter Memory, Sterilise, Influence etc).

Fair enough, I guess, but there are other ways to do this besides direct spell activity....

[Seamus Harper]

I am fully onboard with your PC enthusiasm.
I am likewise impressed at you're attention to detail on the math.

My only concern is that still spreading yourself too far thin on spells to do similar things for, well, very thin reasons. You have built this Pixie as a mainly out-of-Combat PC, able to really mess with things IF GIVEN TIME. You need to be aware of this limitation (do Pixies get 1 or 2 Initiative Passes?)
- Improved attribute (XYZ): Improving any attribute is a good idea, but unless you're going to invest HEAVILY in either Quickening or Sustaining Foci, the benefits of increased attributes are very quickly lost via cumulative -2 modifiers for Sustained spells.
- Combat sense: If you're already in combat, it's too late to cast this spell anyway. And unless you have a Focus/Spirit/Quickening to sustain it, you lose 2 ratings of the power just in sustaining it.
- Stealth: Don't bother. Again, sustaining the spell immediately drops 2 dice from its usefulness, and putting more points into the Infiltration skill will give you the same benefit, but permanently.
- Physical Camouflage: This is a solid choice. No problems here
- Alter Memory: This seems to be the biggest Fairy Dust core spell of your character. Not going to try and talk you out of it
- Orgy: I have nothing good to say about this spell. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist in my campaigns, mainly due to capacity for silliness in an otherwise dark campaign. But, different strokes for different folks
- Influence: Meh, I prefer Mob mind, as Influence is easily accomplished by summoning the right spirit type and expending a service to use the critter power. Why waste BP on a spell when spirit can do it for you? (and ignores Counterspelling when it does so?).. Task or Guidance spirits are good for this (Street Magic sourcebook)

I get the feeling you're building this PC as a Cleaner . Your key spells all resolve around pretending you were never involved (Alter Memory, Sterilise, Influence etc).

Fair enough, I guess, but there are other ways to do this besides direct spell activity....

For the Increased Attribute spells I wasn't necessarily planning to leave them up routinely/permanently (until I get 12 extra karma and 60k nuyen then possibly Increased Charisma or Willpower...and possibly again with the other if it goes well and logic allows with some room; I know there are dangers to having foci lit up all the time; and I was considering developing a casual Psyche habit or whatever it was that halves the sustaining -2's to -1 early on (from what I remember it's cheap and the addiction tests should be easy enough if you have 12 willpower when you roll them).  The thing about Intuition and/or Reaction is that if I took and used those I would put them up for very specific instances (where excellent perception is needed or dodging might be).  As to when I will face combat (and thus need dodging or other instances), what I'm hoping to use camouflage/infiltration coupled with decent perception (will either have clairvoyance after all or some bucket brigade of watcher spirits too) is to always scout the situation and know what's ahead...if I have to fly past armed guards then no matter how invisible to them I expect to be, that's when I'd be casting Increase Reaction and/or Combat Sense etc (I technically have 9 boxes on my physical CM but I am fairly certain it will only take one successful burstfire when least want it).  The other time I'd cast Combat Sense is when Astral Projecting to scout something...it works there and that's where I expect to someday be eaten by Verjigorm (so, accurate or not I will expect combat).  If I need to do something with more dice than current dice allow dropping spells is a free action (ie if I need to Assense an aura but don't see any potential combatants I can decide that round that it's safe to drop Combat Sense and get my dice back afaik).  You might have a point about Stealth.  And yes, if Spirits can cast Influence for me even if I don't take that spell then definitely I won't!   Thanks!!

Oh and you're right about the Cleaner thing...those were core enough to survive the cull from 30 to 12 spells so even though it wasn't the only thing I'd hoped to accomplish, it is definitely a key manifestation of my paranoia (my character tries to stay upbeat outwardly but she knows she has one body and will vanish without a trace some day) that in addition to not being shot I want to leave no evidence that costs me my freedom...hadn't thought of it that way but can definitely make that a selling point of it as "what I do" on a team.