[Iron Serpent Prince]

The way things sound they would all be on the same network, and one person would just have two distinct personas. And I can think of some fun bait-and-switch tactics for nuking hostile deckers with that setup...

I have to wait and see how the language is written.

In 5e, a person only ever had one Persona.  On top of that, they could only form one at a time.

That didn't prevent a person having more than one PAN at a time, since a Persona was not a requirement for a Master.  So, a mythical person could have one PAN mastered by their commlink, another under their cyberdeck, and a third under their RCC to link their drones to.

There also wasn't any preventative language to stop that person from issuing commands through their RCC even if their Persona was formed on their cyberdeck.

I'm not expecting that to be the case in 6th...  However I don't expect the whole development crew to be better at noticing these gaps in their rules language this time around.

[Banshee]

So you can combine commlinks/cyberjacks/cyberdecks to make a full persona, but not an RCC. So what is to stop a savvy tech player from using a cheap commlink and a cyberdeck to make a persona for hacking, and a a control rig and an RCC for controlling/piloting/jumping into drones/vehicles?

The way things sound they would all be on the same network, and one person would just have two distinct personas. And I can think of some fun bait-and-switch tactics for nuking hostile deckers with that setup...

the only real limit here is that you would only be able to have a single persona active, but otherwise yes you can run a double setup and swap between the two as needed ... and as ISP said in his post ... you can also the RCC technically at the same time for drone control but your persona (and therefore your matrix attributes) are limited ... or use a commlink or cyberjack plus a RCC and then your only limit is what programs the RCC can run

the basic concept was to provide a way for riggers specifically to be able to at least defend themselves from hackers and engage in matrix combat at least some what if need be, but not allow a full hybrid crossover super decker/rigger without significant investment

[White_Ghost]

How would a Cyberjack + RCC work, regarding swapping Data processing and firewall? Since both have them, do you just pick the two best ones?

When you are making a pan, is there a limit to devices you can slave? and what is it based off of? Data processing?

[Banshee]

How would a Cyberjack + RCC work, regarding swapping Data processing and firewall? Since both have them, do you just pick the two best ones?

When you are making a pan, is there a limit to devices you can slave? and what is it based off of? Data processing?

can't go in depth on details on a public forum yet ... but as written you have 4 matrix attributes between the two devices not just 2

and yes it is based on data processing

[White_Ghost]

Thanks Banshee, I'll have some more organized questions once the NDA lifts.

Knowing that we're hacking 'systems' rather than individual devices is an improvement in my opinion. It means that deckers feel more tuned, and have way more options with the single hack. In addition to having more than one Major action, I feel like they will be able to be more impactful.

[Banshee]

Thanks Banshee, I'll have some more organized questions once the NDA lifts.

Knowing that we're hacking 'systems' rather than individual devices is an improvement in my opinion. It means that deckers feel more tuned, and have way more options with the single hack. In addition to having more than one Major action, I feel like they will be able to be more impactful.

that was the goal!

also if you (or anyone for that matter) will be at gencon and want to discuss further I will in the SR room Friday, Saturday, and Sunday

[PatrolDeer]

and yes a rigger can attempt to control drones that are not jumped into but don't belong to them via matrix actions

Hi, I am struggling to understand how the above is possible. Both "Jump into Rigged Device" and "Control Device" have user/admin access necessity, which if I am assuming correctly, demand hacking.

[Xenon]

In the paragraphs above he is talking about using a cyberjack and a control rig. And then switch between a cyberdeck and a RCC (depending on what role you want to focus on if you want to be able to do both decking and rigging).

A rigger that want to be able to do both decking and rigging will have the cracking skill and also own a cyberdeck. This hacker/rigger can attempt to control drones that are not jumped into but don't belong to them via the Spoof Command matrix action (to instruct the auto pilot to take actions) and via the Control Device matrix action (to directly remote control it themselves). They can also jump into them via the Jumped Into Rigged Device matrix action (to directly remote control it themselves while being jumped in). All of the above can be done while using a cyberdeck, none of them require that you must use a RCC.

[Xenon]

Is there anything that prevent me from using a commlink or RCC to take the Spoof Command Matrix Action??


There are a few matrix actions (Backdoor Entry, Brute Force and Probe) as well as programs (Biofeedback, Blackout, Stealth and Trace) that are linked to either attack or sleaze (book doesn't actually say, but I guess it is plausible that you need to have a cyberdeck to take the above actions or use the above programs since cyberdeck is the only device that grant you attack and sleaze attributes).

Almost all matrix actions also require that you have some sort of access other than Outsider before you may take them (and gaining access require that you use brute force or probe+backdoor entry which are linked to either attack or sleaze).


But then there are actions that neither are linked to a attack or sleaze attribute nor require other than Outside access. The list of actions that match this filter are: Full Matrix Defense, Hide, Jack Out, Matrix Perception, Matrix Search, Send Message.... but also the Illegal actions Data Spike and Spoof Command.

The damage of Data Spike is Attack/2 (and also here book doesn't actually say, but I guess it is plausible that you need to have a cyberdeck to take Data Spike since cyberdeck is the only device that grant you the attack attribute).

But is there anything stopping me from taking the Spoof Command matrix action while I am not using a cyberdeck (for example while I am just using a cyberjack without a cyberdeck/commlink/RCC or when I am using a commlink or RCC or a combination of cyberjack + commlink or cyberjack + RCC)??

Can illegal (Cracking) matrix actions only be taken when you are using a cyberdeck (or living persona)??
- Can't find such a rule.

[Hobbes]

Living Persona or Cyberdeck is the only way to get a Sleaze or Attack Attribute, so it's certainly implied you'd need one of those to do an Illegal action.  But the wording on p. 174 is a little fuzzy, but from Banshee's statements it's safe to assume the RAI is that you'd need a Cyberdeck or a Living Persona to have a Sleaze or Attack Attribute.

And (like Magic and Resonance) it seems to have gone unstated that if you have an Attribute of 0 you can't do it.  It's pretty obviously RAI though.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Actually, every device effectively has the Attack and/or Sleaze, if you want it to.

Per pg 174:

If the device doesn’t possess one or
more of the Matrix attributes, then the applicable
attribute is treated as if it were 0. You can
rotate all attributes through your persona, even
if they originated from different devices.

It sure looks to me like you can absolutely flip a device that only has D/F stats to A/S stats and transfer the implicit 0s over to D/F.

[Xenon]

...it's certainly implied you'd need one of those to do an Illegal action...

Where?


As far as I can tell, the book doesn't say that you need to use a cyberdeck or having a resonance rating to take an illegal action (but maybe it should).


I could agree that it might or might not be implied that they are needed for matrix actions that are linked to either sleaze or attack (but spoof command and data spike are not linked, but maybe they should).

And it is also certainly implied you need to take one of the linked matrix actions (probe or brute force) in order to illegally gain more than outside access (but spoof command and data spike don't need more than outside access).

In SR5 Spoof Command was resolved with Hacking + Logic [Sleaze]
In SR6 there is no longer any "limit" concept and Sleaze is not part of resolving the action (Cracking + Logic)

The only place where Sleaze and Attack comes into picture when using Spoof Command is when you Distribute Edge.


Attack rating for ranged weapons either have a value or it doesn't. If it doesn't have a value at all then the shot cannot be attempted at that range category because of an explicit rule that only applies to combat (SR6 p. 108 If a weapon does not have an Attack Rating in a certain range category, it cannot be used at that range.). But there does not seem to be anything preventing me from taking a shot if an existing AR is reduced to the value 0.... For example AK-97 at Extreme range have an attack rating of 1 and if used it with a SA attack that attack rating is reduced to the value 0 which mean opponents with a DR of 4 (instead of a DR of 5) or more will gain an edge.

Unlike ranged weapons that either have a value for a category or it doesn't, attack rating for illegal actions always seem to have a have a value (but in some cases this value might be treated as if it is 0, SR6 p. 174 If the device doesn’t possess one or more of the Matrix attributes, then the applicable attribute is treated as if it were 0.). Just like for ranged attacks there does not seem to be anything preventing me from taking an illegal matrix action if an exiting AR have the value 0 (or is reduced to the value 0). And even if it may be argued that rating 0 is the same as not having an Attack Rating when it specifically comes to combat attacks, no such explicit rule seem to exist for matrix actions.

[Michael Chandra]

Actually, every device effectively has the Attack and/or Sleaze, if you want it to.

Per pg 174:

If the device doesn’t possess one or
more of the Matrix attributes, then the applicable
attribute is treated as if it were 0. You can
rotate all attributes through your persona, even
if they originated from different devices.

It sure looks to me like you can absolutely flip a device that only has D/F stats to A/S stats and transfer the implicit 0s over to D/F.

This is indeed what the bad phrasing allows which directly contradicts the 'you need a cyberdeck to hack' fluff and the apparent RAI of some rule sections, so if it's not fixed in errata or faq I will 100% houserule it out.

[penllawen]

This is indeed what the bad phrasing allows which directly contradicts the 'you need a cyberdecck to hack' fluff and the apparent RAI of some rule sections, so if it's not fixed in errata or faq I will 100% houserule it out.

Whilst I agree this feels weird, I wouldn't characterise it as "bad phrasing." That suggests it's ambiguous or something. It's extremely clear that the ability to move stats from.cyberjacks to cyberdecks and vice verda is both current RAW and current RAI. I think it's even mentioned again somewhere else in the book, for emphasis.

[Michael Chandra]

The idea of being able to use 4 Commlinks for 3/3/3/3 stats and being able to hack, or even a single commlink just by swapping its 3 with an 0, completely contradicts this quote:

In game terms, the difference between a commlink
and a cyberdeck is that the cyberdeck possesses
the Matrix Attributes needed for hacking

We also don't have an example that explicitly allows the A/S <--> D/F, all we have for that is the implication of the other section. So, we need proper clarification here either way, there's not enough to be clear on RAI. And the implication is horrible: Why would I even get the expensive gear if I can just hack with a commlink or two and swapping Attributes?

(We also know that Banshee originally intended for it to NOT be allowed, but death of the author and all.)

@Xenon: Data Spike is now Attack-linked, by errata.